| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Is it possible to make only a basic use of Studio? Thread poster: Sandrine Ananie
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| OK, but why hundreds of copies of the filters? | Mar 18, 2010 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Well I do not know, if they are useless.
Let me rephrase: they are uselessly copied to every project. It is enough to keep one copy of the filter files in your computer, in a program folder, and that's it. To me, having to copy 2.8+MB of files for each tiny project is bad design.
Also, can you tell me how many people in our industry use DITA or DocBook files? 0.01% of translators? Maybe 0,05% of translators? And despite that fact, the 1 MB DITA filter is copied to every project. Plain ridiculous if you ask me.
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Otherwise I do not really see a problem here. 2,8 MB is nowadays as much as few kB when I started 20 years ago. When you download a song, it is most probably bigger, so who really cares?
I think you did not read what I said at the very beginning of this thread. I don't want to have to care for, move, copy, backup, or restore, 2.8+MB of useless files with every project. Disk space is cheap, but Studio will rocket backup and file management times of the less computer-savvy users. That's a fact. And a lot of people will care as soon as they start seeing their file operations and backups run incredibly slow since they bought Studio.
| | | | | 2.8 MB of pretty useless filter files | Mar 18, 2010 |
I agree. It'd be so much better to use a central folder to keep the filter files and/or other files not related specifically to the project. 2.8MB might not be much but multiply that by dozens or even hundreds of files a year and it becomes a lot.
[Edited at 2010-03-18 19:42 GMT]
| | | | | More junk files, please... | Mar 18, 2010 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Well I do not know, if they are useless.
Most certainly you could delete filters you do not need in a particular project. But...
I think this is more a feature as a problem, because if you would happen to need to add a file to the project, you simply add it and everthing works.
Well, true.
The setting used to create the project are useful.
But maybe I'm not enough intelligent to follow the bright SDL developpers ideas but when I have a simple DOC(X)/XLS(X) project, I don't know why they put me the settings for InDesign, Framemaker, RESX, of course one meg of DITA settings and all the plethoric stuff...
Otherwise I do not really see a problem here. 2,8 MB is nowadays as much as few kB when I started 20 years ago. When you download a song, it is most probably bigger, so who really cares?
Please, more junk, more and more...
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-03-18 21:08 GMT]
| | | | | Thank you for your kindness Jerzy | Mar 18, 2010 |
I'm going through your "guide", but I'm still itching my head. Where is the "Create new project wizard"?
See. What I told you. I just entered the airplane cockpit without a license to fly.
Studio 2009 is not an upgrade for existing Trados users. It is a totally new product. It should not even be called Trados. SDL bought Trados trademark only to RISK the program out of the translation community and make us swallow the not-so-well-accepted SDLX interface - because Studio... See more I'm going through your "guide", but I'm still itching my head. Where is the "Create new project wizard"?
See. What I told you. I just entered the airplane cockpit without a license to fly.
Studio 2009 is not an upgrade for existing Trados users. It is a totally new product. It should not even be called Trados. SDL bought Trados trademark only to RISK the program out of the translation community and make us swallow the not-so-well-accepted SDLX interface - because Studio IS the SDLX interface.
But well, I'll learn it sooner or later. I've learned other ones. See Alchemy Catalyst. Complicated. But I learned it! ▲ Collapse
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| It was not called Trados for a while | Mar 18, 2010 |
Heloísa Helena Benetton Costa wrote:
Studio 2009 is not an upgrade for existing Trados users. It is a totally new product. It should not even be called Trados.
Well, when it was first published it was not called Trados, but just SDL Studio 2009... Then apparently someone noticed that Trados users would distrust something that was not called Trados and they added the name...
| | | | Jerzy Czopik 
Germany
Local time: 19:45
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| "New Project" | Mar 18, 2010 |
This button is present in EVERY view you could ever chose in Studio.
Just press that or CTRL+N and follow the wizzard.
| | | | | Custom project template | Mar 18, 2010 |
Also, can you tell me how many people in our industry use DITA or DocBook files? 0.01% of translators? Maybe 0,05% of translators? And despite that fact, the 1 MB DITA filter is copied to every project. Plain ridiculous if you ask me.
But Tomás, you can easily create custom project templates which you can use to create projects that include only the filters that you want to use in that project.
I guess that all filters are included by default so unexperienced users don't have think what they need (they get all) at the small expense of losing some disk space.
If you need that space, you can create project templates and you won't get all the files.
Daniel
| | | | | Filters are important | Mar 19, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Let me rephrase: they are uselessly copied to every project. It is enough to keep one copy of the filter files in your computer, in a program folder, and that's it. To me, having to copy 2.8+MB of files for each tiny project is bad design.
They are not useless, there is a very important reason why they are created on a per-project basis.
Picture this:
1. You send a project off to translation in a package, say a InDesign INX.
2. By including the INX filter files YOU used to create the SDLXLIFF, you are ensured the translator can work on the file correctly.
3. This translation takes a few weeks to get back.
4. In the meantime SDL releases a new INX Filter update with some updates to it
5. You apply it to your system, from now on it will be using this new Filter for each new project
6. A few days later you get back the translated file from 1.
7. When you now try to save the file as target it will use the OLD Filter you had used when you created the SDLXLIFF to backconvert the file.
By using the same Filter as used on creation you eliminate the likelihood of facing a situation where your file does not save back due to changes in the new filter potentially breaking compatibility.
Surely that safety is worth 2.8MB?
And as stated correctly above, it adds every File Filter to every project so that you can easily add further files to an existing project without bothering much. Although as Daniel states you do have the option to deselect them if wanted by using Project Templates.
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| Minimum settings | Mar 19, 2010 |
Daniel García wrote: Also, can you tell me how many people in our industry use DITA or DocBook files? 0.01% of translators? Maybe 0,05% of translators? And despite that fact, the 1 MB DITA filter is copied to every project. Plain ridiculous if you ask me.
But Tomás, you can easily create custom project templates which you can use to create projects that include only the filters that you want to use in that project. I guess that all filters are included by default so unexperienced users don't have think what they need (they get all) at the small expense of losing some disk space. If you need that space, you can create project templates and you won't get all the files.
Well, I'm too lazy, T2009 is my secondary tool and I can stand the occasional 2 megs of junk but the story makes me think about Multiterm export filters.
Of course, you can create custom filters for every termbase you have and they will work, unlike the default ones but I expect rather some programmer's imagination and a switch full/minimum project info somewhere in the options.
The minimum info should be the default setting, at least in the Freelance version.
When the minimum option is selected, only the needed settings should be copied to the project.
When you add an "unknown" file, the program should add the related settings to the project.
But this comportment needs some analysis and an additional work for the programmer, so it was avoided, like in Multiterm.
PS.
I'm pessimist.
I suppose very few users are able to create project templates theirselves (although it's really easy).
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-03-19 07:27 GMT]
| | | | | Really easy..! | Mar 19, 2010 |
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I suppose very few users are able to create project templates theirselves (although it's really easy).
Hi Grzegorz,
What could be easier than going through the project creation the first time (and you can remove any unwanted filters as you do this) and then when you get to the end check the appropriate radio button.
After this when you come to create a project you just select the template you want instead of going though all the options again, so as you say it is really easy.
I think it's a shame that so much of this discussion is driven by users who don't see Studio as their tool of choice anyway, and I really hope that those users who would like to use it are not put off by some of the commentary in threads like these. I don't see this much negativity in other forums for other tools, and it would be just as easy to do it when you consider what you prefer.
I would be prepared to organise a webex specifically aimed at covering off things that you think do not work, or are problems, and then perhaps we could make it a useful exercise to address only the points of contention. We really don't have anything to hide and despite what some users here may think Studio was developed foremost with the Translator in mind.
So, rather than slaughter me on the basis of what I just said, perhaps you can share some thoughts on what such a webex should cover?
Regards
Paul
| | | | | There is a reason | Mar 19, 2010 |
SDL Support wrote:
I think it's a shame that so much of this discussion is driven by users who don't see Studio as their tool of choice anyway, and I really hope that those users who would like to use it are not put off by some of the commentary in threads like these.
But Paul, I think you are missing the whole point here. After being a Trados user for almost 15 years, what tool do you think would have been my tool of choice? Naturally Trados or an evolution of Trados. Unfortunately the evolution SDL has created does not --I feel-- serve my purposes of simplicity and efficiency, and I was forced to risk it and look for other options. I was lucky I found a very good one, and now honestly I will go back to Trados when my customers force me to do it.
I don't feel my change of main working tool is the result of whim or impulse, but a change forced by SDL.
[Edited at 2010-03-19 08:48 GMT]
| | | | | Churn... webex... | Mar 19, 2010 |
SDL Support wrote: Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
I suppose very few users are able to create project templates theirselves (although it's really easy). What could be easier than going through the project creation the first time (and you can remove any unwanted filters as you do this) and then when you get to the end check the appropriate radio button. After this when you come to create a project you just select the template you want instead of going though all the options again, so as you say it is really easy.).
Yes, I know how it works 
I think it's a shame that so much of this discussion is driven by users who don't see Studio as their tool of choice anyway,
It's just like the telecom companies.
The problem is not to gain a customer but how to don't loose it
You lost me as believer because of the extremely poor font handling of CE fonts in the T5.x-6.x epoch (in fact, the problem was never resolved for Word) and because of the unusable terminology modules (usability and setup issues).
As the Word interface is finally gone, you have still a lot of terminology issues to fix.
and I really hope that those users who would like to use it are not put off by some of the commentary in threads like these.
Well, I'm kicking my preferred tools in a similar way, e.g.:
http://www.proz.com/forum/déjà_vu_support/160298-dvx_teamserver_nobody_noticed_it.html
And I have no problems to admit strong points of SDL products, including Multiterm
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/160364-buying_trados_for_the_first_time.html
I would be prepared to organise a webex specifically aimed at covering off things that you think do not work, or are problems, and then perhaps we could make it a useful exercise to address only the points of contention. We really don't have anything to hide and despite what some users here may think Studio was developed foremost with the Translator in mind.
Studio, maybe yes.
Multiterm, decidely no
So, rather than slaughter me on the basis of what I just said, perhaps you can share some thoughts on what such a webex should cover?
For me, terminology integration issues.
Different layouts out of the box for different types of users (at least two).
Saving layouts.
Horizontal editing field, at least for the current unit (it's enough for me, I would never come back to the legacy Word/TagEditor idea).
Sound context menus, especially in Multiterm.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2010-03-19 14:41 GMT]
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| Direct criticism is just good | Mar 19, 2010 |
It is only healthy that developers of all brands are forced to hear things they don't like to hear. Today we have that option of guiding your development in these fora, and we all express our criticism and concerns not just about Studio but all other tools.
I very often express my concerns about my main tool to their developers, and surprisingly enough, they are thankful that I take the time to do so. They don't immediately think it is my fault, which feels really nice.
| | | | Sandrine Ananie
France
Local time: 19:45
Member (2009)
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks everyone for all your input. I certainly didn't expect this thread to evolve the way it did, though!
I had a webex with Paul from SDL and I have to say things are now clearer (thanks Paul!). So yes, it is possible to use Studio in a simple manner.
Thanks everyone,
Sandrine
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Well, when it was first published it was not called Trados, but just SDL Studio 2009...
Oh, I didn't know that! Then it is what I told you. It is a totally new product. So you either like it or not.
A very big and important client of mine (a translation agency) made a "survey" to learn how many of their translators already had Studio 200... See moreWell, when it was first published it was not called Trados, but just SDL Studio 2009...
Oh, I didn't know that! Then it is what I told you. It is a totally new product. So you either like it or not.
A very big and important client of mine (a translation agency) made a "survey" to learn how many of their translators already had Studio 2009. I told them I had it, but that didn't know how to use it yet. They said they think it is complicated and didn't still decide if they are going to adopt it or not.
I totally depend on my clients about the use of CAT tools. When they say: jump, I jump. So if they begin to use Studio more frequently, I'll use it, but definitely I don't think I'll be using it all by myself, I mean, it won't be my choice tool anymore. As long as Trados 2007 works in my computer, I'll be using it.
I personally believe that the use of a specific CAT tool - if it will be popular or not - depends much on the translation agencies. Since I begin working with translation, 13 years ago, I always used the CAT tool that the agency specified. That's why I learned how to use Trados, Transit, Catalyist, Passolo, Helium, proprietary softwares for subtitling and so many others.
Trados happened to be the most popular CAT tool along all those years. Now it will be discontinued by SDL. MAYBE Studio will take Trados place, maybe another CAT tool will. That's the competitive world we live! ▲ Collapse
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