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matiériste
caisse comp. jockey paris plat
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Apr 4, 2011 15:59
13 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

Établissement Mandataire

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) Securities negotiations
This is not at all my field - I'm doing it as a favour.

**Établissement Mandataire** :
[Non Applicable/si applicable nom et informations] (Noter qu’un **Établissement Mandataire** peut être désigné pour les Titres Dématérialisés au nominatif pur uniquement).
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 agent, proxy, party w/power of attorney, representative, custodian, broker
3 Mandatory establishment
3 Representative Institution
References
Inscription en compte/Book-entry system

Discussion

joehlindsay Apr 8, 2011:
I think 'depository trust' is still probably closest, but the asker should definitely consult the client. When people buy shares from a stock brokerage in the US and France, that brokerage does not hold them for security reasons. The brokerage deposits the shares in the custody of another institution that keeps them. That way no one at the brokerage can steal them, or if the brokerage fails, the investors' shares are still safe. I don't know if this is by law or just stock exchange rules. These institutions are usually banks that offer that special service and it is called 'depository trust'. These institutions are specially insured, and usually banks noted for probity.

I think this would be the same thing, but instead of holding the paper stock certificates, they maintain the electronic records. I can't remember now, but I think it is BNP or Paribas that has a department that does most of this in France, so the answer might be found somewhere on one of their bilingual websites. I haven't found it so far.
Germaine Apr 8, 2011:
Well... the sentence says "titres dématérialisés au nominatif pur...", so, they already lost their paper form (or are they getting there?). I think it might be shares issued directly by the corporation (by way of a private distribution, for example) "to be held in uncertificated or book-entry form", meaning that even within the Corporation itself, there would be no paper certificates (Thankssss God!!!). Anyway, let's say I won't bet my pay on this... for now! ;-)
joehlindsay Apr 8, 2011:
This is just a shot in the dark, but could 'nominatif pur' refer to shares that are just held in paper form and not electronically?
Germaine Apr 8, 2011:
Thanks for the confidence! Mais reste à savoir si ça s'applique bien à votre document. Même si je nage là-dedans depuis plus de 15 ans, it's the first time I see "nominatif pur" (?) So, just in case, I put a reference.
joehlindsay Apr 8, 2011:
It seems obvious to me that Germaine knows what she is taling about.
Germaine Apr 8, 2011:
"titres dématérialisés" usually refers to what is called a "book entry system" - see, for example, CDS Clearing and Depositary Services Inc., Canada's central depository for securities or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_&_Clearing_Cor... (EuroCCP). Securities are usually bought through a dealer or broker who usually is a participant to CDS (as you will notice on Wiki). So, the "mandataire" should be the agent, dealer or broker since it has to do with "nominatif pur" only and Clearing and Depositary Services usually only issue "global" certificates - des certificats non nominatifs.
claude-andrew (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
Thanks again Joe, you've been of great help. I've just written my note to the client, proposing depositary trust. And I realise that "Mandatory establishment" is totally a calque - in fact the translator had even mis-spelt it "Mandatary"!
joehlindsay Apr 4, 2011:
There are 2 things at play here: there is the US "Depository Trust Company", which is a specific company, and the general descriptive term 'depository trust', which would apply here and is a kind of financial organization that may have specific names in various countries.

I think it is wise to submit this to the company. However, I have worked multilingually for some of the biggest names in banking and brokerage in the US, Uk France, Switzerland and Japan, and I would not necessarily assume that they always translate such things accurately, but it's their choice so they can't blame you.

I would just be sure that you avoid 'mandatory establishment' which is clearly a calque composed with the false cognates/faux amis 'mandataire/mandatory'. Mandatory does not mean any thing like the French term 'mandataire', they have completely different meanings. I'll elaborate above.
claude-andrew (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
European context I should have said that the context is Europe, not the USA, so although "depositary trust" may well be correct for the USA, I don't have the competence to pronounce it OK for Europe (altugh Google does give it on a Swiss site). I'm going candidly to have to ask the client to choose from your suggestions. (The client is a very big name, almost certain to know the English term).
joehlindsay Apr 4, 2011:
You might consider "depository trust". See "depository trust company".
joehlindsay Apr 4, 2011:
It might be helpful to consult investopedia.com for 'dematerialization' or just 'demat' as it has come to be called, and do a google search for the English term for what the organization that holds electronic securties is most commonly called. I t might be as simple as just 'broker'. I'll see if i can find something because demat is becoming the most common way to hold shares and bonds.
claude-andrew (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
joeh Exactly - granddictionnaire was my first port of call, and my understanding is the same as yours. Perhaps I ought to alert the client (once I've established a suitable alternative thanks to all you helpers).
joehlindsay Apr 4, 2011:
what this is probably referring to is the trend to 'dematerialize' securities. That is to say, that instead of having a piece of paper evidencing a share of stock, there is only an electronic entry. The 'établissement mandataire' is probably a brokerage or bank that has been authorized to keep these electronic records.

Again, mandatory establishment is definitely not correct - confidence level 5.
joehlindsay Apr 4, 2011:
Olivia is absolutely correct. I would be very wary of using 'mandatory establishment'. That is most probably a calque used by an inexperienced translator.

The words "mandatory establshment" are not used in English except as referring to something that must be created.

There are no appropriate hits on google.

If you need to confirm this for your client, go to the granddictionnaire.com page I posted below (granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800_1.asp) which translates 'mandataire' as "agent, authorized agent, etc.
claude-andrew (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
Olivia Yes, I know ... hence my wariness
Olivia Clark (X) Apr 4, 2011:
My only reservation would be that when I googled that term nothing that made any real sense came up...
claude-andrew (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
Thanks kimjo I've now been given a bilingual document from the same client to help me. The term they use is indeed Mandatory establishment. I'm still slightly wary as this is itself the work of some translator - but since the client accepted it I'll use it unless a more authoritative opinion is expressed.

Proposed translations

14 mins

Mandatory establishment

This term may be too word-for-word but it works.
Reference:

http://termiumplus.gc.ca

Note from asker:
Thanks - as I said, the client has used "mandatory establishment" in another document; however in view of all the discussion here I'm not 100% sure (and am not at all knowledgeable in the field)
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Representative Institution

Not my area either... Without reading the text I wouldn't like to answer with 100% confidence, but the link shows that this is a European business term and it may fit with the meaning of your text.
Reference:

http://www.cms-bfl.com/Employment-Pensions/Management-of-Representative-Institutions

Peer comment(s):
neutral joehlindsay : This is definitely on the right track, but as I posted, need more context.
6 mins
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+1
1 hr

agent, proxy, party w/power of attorney, representative, custodian, broker

This means an entity that has been delegated authority to act on behalf of another.

Without more context, it is difficult to know which to choose because it varies according to what activity is involved.

Could you provide a little more context and maybe I could narrow it down?



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-04-04 17:55:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please also see the entry for 'mandataire' in granddictionaire.com at granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800_1.asp

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-04-04 18:36:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Let me add the term 'depository trust' here. I think that is actually the best translation in this context.
Peer comment(s):
agree Germaine : with agent, broker, dealer - There is also "market intermediary" - who is "au sens de la Loi sur les valeurs mobilières, le courtier en valeurs, le conseiller en valeurs ou son représentant" - GDT
3 days 7 hrs
Thanks, I didn't know if I had been articulate enough to explain what I meant.
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Reference comments

3 days 9 hrs
Reference:

Inscription en compte/Book-entry system

Des certificats n’attestant que l’inscription en compte des parts seront émis sous forme nominative à CDS ou à son prête-nom et seront déposés auprès de CDS lors de chaque clôture. En conséquence, un investisseur ne recevra qu’un avis d’exécution du courtier inscrit qui est un adhérent à CDS et par l’entremise duquel l’investisseur a fait l’acquisition des parts. Le cas échéant, la Société utilisera le système d’inscription en compte pour effectuer des distributions à l’égard des parts achetées par les investisseurs, lesquelles seront alors transmises par CDS aux adhérents à CDS et, par la suite, aux porteurs de parts.

Book-entry only certificates representing the Units will be issued in registered form to CDS or its nominee and will be deposited with CDS on each Closing. Accordingly, an investor will receive only a customer confirmation from the registered dealer or broker which is a CDS Participant and through which the investor purchased Units. The Partnership will make distributions, if any, on Units purchased by investors through the book-based system to CDS, which will then be forwarded by CDS to the CDS Participants, and after that to the holders of Units.

Extrait/Abstract, prospectus d'une société en commandite/prospectus of a limited partnership (document public) - For other examples - namely, an agency agreement (convention de placement pour compte) would give you more info, but there is none in French these days) - see www.sedar.com
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