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Établissement Mandataire
Apr 4, 2011 15:26
13 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

matiériste

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Ecole de l’Art et des Matières
Have searched everywhere and found nothing convincing. The closest I've got to anything that might, possibly, be right is "matierist", but that doesn't seem right...

"- Formation matiériste-coloriste en décor mural
Le matiériste-Coloriste en décor de sols crée et réalise des sols décoratifs dans le bâti contemporain
Le Designer-Matiériste crée et réalise des décors murs et sols à partir de matériaux premiers (chaux, terre, plâtre) et de matériaux de récupération, matériaux pauvres (verre, plastique, carton, tissu, végétal)…pour différents espaces : habitat, administration, industrie, hôtellerie, musée"

Many thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 [course in] materials [and colour for mural artists]
5 +1 matierist
4 +1 architectural finishing
References
Both professions and training are given here:

Discussion

Comunican (asker) Apr 5, 2011:
@ Helen Expert assistance, yes (and much appreciated!) but no clear unequivocal guidance and no solution that would be usable across all instances in the document (sorry!). In the end, I had to do something as I was losing my mind at midnight on something that I intended to have finished by 6pm...
I highlighted the uncertainty over the term with the agency, so they can raise it with the client if they choose. The rest of the translation I felt was fine. Thanks for all your help.
Helen Shiner Apr 5, 2011:
Matter painting @ Comunican - what a shame you chose to go down that route despite all the expert assistance being offered here!!
Helen Shiner Apr 5, 2011:
Pure art Again David I don't know why you conflate mural art with what you call 'pure art'. If you mean 'fine art', I would have to say that in common with what is being taught here, mural art would technically count as applied art or even public art in some circumstances. Fine art relates to the gallery.
Helen Shiner Apr 5, 2011:
@ David Surely it is irrelevant what the man in the street thinks about mural art here. The suggestions made and my comments specifically were made within this context. Quite what you mean about a distinction between 'mural art' and 'mural art' (sic), I fail to understand.
Comunican (asker) Apr 5, 2011:
Thanks David I appreciate your input very much.
The deed is now done, though; I had to stop going round and round, having spent most of the day on this....!
David Vaughn Apr 5, 2011:
matter painting I think it is very important to not base the word choice mostly on appearance. This is more about the connotations of the word - their meaning in context. Just because an artwork resembles a urinal (like Duchamp's famous piece) doesn't mean you use plumbing terminology. Working architecturally with design and mixed media would very seldom be defined as "painting" and your context seems to consciously distance itself from painting - be it wall painting or fine art painting.
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
I do think Matter Painting is the best solution... ... having found the images for Japp Wagermaker and the references on http://petergreenaway.com.au/site/ as well as the Tate reference posted earlier.
It may not be perfect, but it appears nothing is!
Plus, I can use it in pretty much all instances in this translation.
And that way, I can go to bed, too... :-)
David Vaughn Apr 4, 2011:
@ Helen - mural art 00:26 It also seems to me that this context is specifically distancing itself from "pure art" by the use of words such as design and decorative.
David Vaughn Apr 4, 2011:
@ Helen - mural art I'm not saying that mural art can't include avant garde stuff. But try a google image search of "mural art". Again, I have no idea who the intended audience is, but think most people will associate "mural art" with what is commonly known as "mural art".
David Vaughn Apr 4, 2011:
matiériste-coloriste From what I understand - which isn't everything, I don't have the context - this term is used in a single school. They invented it to indeed give artistic pretension to "wall painters". Judging from the photos on the school's site, that pretension is earned.

When terms are unusual in the source text, it stands to reason you wouldn't look for everyday English as a translation.

Note that the idea of design is included in the class description. If this is the phrase being translated, "design" supplies the needed reality-check. I think you can go with matierist and colourist.
SJLD Apr 4, 2011:
Have a look at architectural and decorative wall finishes.
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
course in materials and colour for mural artists that sounds great!
Thank you!
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
Matter painting refers only to a small group of specific fine art painters: http://www.tate.org.uk/collections/glossary/definition.jsp?e... so I wouldn't suggest it.
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
What about "Matter Painting" that SJLD suggested? that seemed to work, non?
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
Typical course content Here is a typical course in interior design. Students study materials and finishes, colour and texture: http://www.solent.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/interior_desig... How about saying something like 'course in materials and colour for mural artists'?
SJLD Apr 4, 2011:
I've removed my suggestion.
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
@ SJLD I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Neither could one translate it as a course in mixed media painting!
SJLD Apr 4, 2011:
I'm sorry Helen, but I really don't see how you can translate "Formation matiériste-coloriste en décor mural" as a course in interior design.
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
@ SJLD If you check 'view source' for that website (a good example), the keywords selected include (in this order) 'interior designer', 'mural artist', 'decorative painter'. The first is general and would cover all bases, the others are more limited and would not cover all of the tasks mentioned in Comunican's text.
SJLD Apr 4, 2011:
like this one http://fruitofthegloom.multiply.com/photos/album/5?&album=5&...

He calls himself a decorative painter.
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
Terminology I think you might have to accept that there isn't going to be an exact translation here. I wouldn't mind betting that most people involved in such projects would just refer to themselves as artists prepared to take on architectural commissions.
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
@ Helen What, you mean I should just say "interor designer"?! I think it needs more than that...
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
@ Comunican I thought that was what we were talking about!!?
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
Hi Helen I don't have an artistic bone in my body, so it all sems terribly impressive to me LOL
But I'm still left with this dreaded "matiériste"...
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
@ Comunican I can't really see why a specific interior designer might be rather more avant-garde or arty than others. Maybe 'interior artist' would be closer, such as http://www.bylea.co.uk/About_Lea/about_lea.html
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
@ SJLD Not a style, no, but also not mixed media artist.
Comunican (asker) Apr 4, 2011:
it's both art and interior design Hi David and Helen. Many thanks for your input and a good question thank you - and no, I don't feel patronised :-)
Yes, it is interior design in a way, but it is much more "artistic" than that. And the websites David quotes are more than interior design; they might not be art in itself but they use art techniques in creating walls and floors for the restoration of old buildings and contemporary creations.
So, I'm not sure really... Ho hum...
SJLD Apr 4, 2011:
It's basically decorating walls and floors, isn't it - what painter-decorators do. I've done it myself with chaux and plaster, faux effects, stencilling etc. Haven't yet got around to transforming my mixed media collages into murals ;-) The "matiériste" bit is - from the description - just making use of different materials. It's not an artistic style.
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
Typical source book http://www.bergpublishers.com/?tabid=2672
Helen Shiner Apr 4, 2011:
Agree with David This sounds far more like interior design, or as some now like to call a related profession, interior architecture. What is described is the choice of materials for the interior to create different moods or environments appropriate to the use of the spaces in question. I really don't think it is some rarified 'ism' here.
David Vaughn Apr 4, 2011:
artisan Could you clarify, Comunican? Is the description you give your context? Don't mean to be condescending, but this is about interior design, not "art", as the one school offering this diploma makes clear : http://www.artematieres.com/formations-professionnelles.html & http://www.artematieres.com/matieriste-coloriste-decor-mural... They supposedly have an English page, but it doesn't seem to exist.

Proposed translations

5 hrs
Selected

[course in] materials [and colour for mural artists]

I would suggest a work-around as explained in the discussion box. This suggestion only works for the first instance of matiériste, but I 'll leave you to come up with something suitable for other instances.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2011-04-04 21:40:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pleasure!
Note from asker:
Thanks Helen for all your help. it's been great having you here this evening as I wade through this...!
Peer comment(s):
neutral David Vaughn : I wouldn't use the term mural - even if it can refer to anything that happens on a wall, I think it instantly and insistently evokes murals - usually figurative "realistic" scenes painted on a wall. // In reply: But that relief is also figurative.
34 mins
I don't agree, David, sorry. Mural art can be so many things including relief sculpture.//Perhaps you are confusing 'mural painting' with 'mural art'?//Relief work is as likely to be abstract as it is to be figurative!! Same for painting/decorative work.
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I can't grade this answer for reasons I have already given in the discussion. But would particularly like to award points to Helen Shiner for her help, when I was struggling the most. And many thanks to everyone who helped."
+1
27 mins

matierist

There's no need to invent a bicycle again where it is available.
It is an international term, which may be directly adopted by or a litttle adapted to another European language.
Example sentence:

Reliefs, assemblages and matierist paintings...

His paintings became more chaotic and more matierist,...

Reference:

http://wwar.com/categories/Artists/Countries/France/index16.html

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006845

Peer comment(s):
agree Evans (X) : A matierist is an artist such as Antoní Tapies who uses materials such as sand and gravel on his paintings, or beeswax. I've even seen him use a shoe. This is called matierism.
4 mins
disagree Helen Shiner : Not in this context.
5 hrs
agree David Vaughn : I certainly understand Helen's objection, but considering that the French term is extremely rare in this context, but cooresponds with the overly-used "matière", I don't see a better solution, as long as the idea of "craft of artistic quality" is there.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

architectural finishing

architectural finishing designer and architectural finishing craftsman for Designer-Matiériste and Matiériste-Coloriste respectively.
Peer comment(s):
agree SJLD : yes, I'd go for this - they are not just mural artists - and matiériste-coloriste only seems to exist at the school that runs the course...
19 mins
neutral Helen Shiner : These are not known professions.
28 mins
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Both professions and training are given here:

http://www.artematieres.com/matieriste-coloriste-decor-mural...
Does he/she qualify being called an artist? It's architectural decoration.

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Note added at 2 heures (2011-04-04 17:42:08 GMT)
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As David Vaughn has pointed out (same reference!)
Note from asker:
Thanks Kashew! So, what do you recommend for "matiériste"?
Something went wrong...
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