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licenciada

English translation: leave it out

16:06 Apr 13, 2005
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs / petition for adoption
Spanish term or phrase: licenciada
Context:

"ante mim, XXXXX comparece, por una parte, la licenciada Maria XXXXXXXX, de cuarenta y un anõs, casada, peruana, Abogado y Notario, de este domicilio y vecindad, y quien dóy fé de conocer, y quien actúa em representación de los señores XXXXXXX y XXXXX [couple adopting the child]..Por la otra parte, comparece [the mother of the adopted child]"

Is she the attorney? If so, I don't understand the part in the middle that says "abogadO y notariO". Are they talking about somebody else?

I thank you for your help.
VicSeipke
English translation:leave it out
Explanation:
In English, we don't name people by their titles, i.e. the lawyer "Maria X." is just called "María X."

In Spanish-speaking countries, everyone who has a title is called by it. It is different in English-speaking countries. For example, Mary Smith (a teacher) is Ms., Miss or Mrs. Smith in an English-speaking coutry, but in Latin America it is a lack of respect for her status as a teacher to call her Srta or Sra Smith. She is la maestra Smith, or often, Maestra Mary. In English, we would not call her Teacher Mary or Teacher Smith. She is also called Maestra if the highest degree she holds is a Master´s, whatever her profession.

Similarily, if she is an engineer, she is la ing. Smith; if an arquitect, la arq. Smith. etc.

In Spanish, a person who has a licenciatura is not called Sr., Srta., Sra, but Lic. In English we do not have this custom , and so the cultural equivalent of "Lic." is just Ms., Miss or Mrs. Or, if it is in a context (as this one) where we would not even use such a courtesy title, simply leave it out. Call her María X. así nomás. The information about her being an attorney and notary is there anyway, following her name.
Selected response from:

Margaret Schroeder
Mexico
Local time: 13:58
Grading comment
This was a tough one to grade. Everyone suggeston helped me a bit. I decided to leave it out, especially if the 'abogadO' refers to Maria (one of my questions). Thank you all very much.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5Ms.
BAmary (X)
4 +4leave it out
Margaret Schroeder
5 +2attorney, lawyer
J. Sanchez
5 +1Licentiate, Bachelor (of), algunos lo llaman lawyer
Gabriela Rodriguez
4licensed
Pantoglot
4B.S., B.A., etc.
teju


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Licentiate, Bachelor (of), algunos lo llaman lawyer


Explanation:
An academic degree called a licentiate or one of its cognates exists in various European countries, representing different educational levels.

In Belgian universities, the Licentiate (or Licentiaat in Dutch) is the equivalent of a master's degree.

Students receive a Licentiate after 4 years of successful study. The first two years are known as kandidatuur (candidacy), meaning students are qualifying themselves for study at the licenciate level.

Study is very rigorous. Students in Belgian universities usually take more than 30 hours a week (as opposed to an average of 15 at American universities.) Thus, students are able to complete their degrees in four years, as opposed to the usual six at American institutions.

In Swedish universities, a licentiatexamen or Licentiate degree, called a filosofie licentiat (Licentiate of Philosophy), teologie licentiat (Licentiate of Theology) etc, depending on the faculty, equals completion of the coursework required for a doctorate and a dissertation roughly equivalent to half of a doctoral dissertation. Also the Finnish education system has the same degree (in Finnish lisensiaatti), the two Nordic countries having a common heritage.

Bologna Convention

In 2003, the European Union organized the Bologna convention on higher education, in order to create uniform standards across the EU in that field. The resulting conclusions called for all European universities to change their degree programs to an undergraduate degree and a master's degree. These changes will be implemented in Belgian universities for students starting study in 2004–2005.

Bachelor: A person who has completed the undergraduate curriculum of a college or university and holds a bachelor's degree.


    Reference: http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=lice...
    Reference: http://www.answers.com/bachelor
Gabriela Rodriguez
Argentina
Local time: 16:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  aykon: si, cuidado aqui, en mex por ejemplo se dice licenciada a todas las que tienen un BA, pero muchas veces se refiere a abogadas de verdad
7 mins
  -> merci eileen
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
licensed


Explanation:
...

Pantoglot
Colombia
Local time: 14:58
PRO pts in category: 8
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
Ms.


Explanation:
En inglés no se aclara adelante del nombre el título como hacemos en español (excepto para los que son Dr.). Lo que yo hago en las Traducciones Pública es poner:
"Before me, XXXX, there appears Ms. Maria XXX, party of the first part, aged forty-one, married, of Peruvian nationality, Attorney-at-Law and Notary Public, domiciled in... of this city, personally known to me, which I attest..."
(o algo similar, dependiendo de tu gusto y estilo). Defnitivamente no pondría Bachelor porque no se utiliza en inglés antepuesto al nombre.
Sds.

BAmary (X)
Canada
Local time: 15:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  skport
7 mins
  -> Thanks
agree  Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
9 mins
  -> Thanks
agree  Adriana de Groote: Exacto, no se le pone, pues ya después se aclara cuál es su profesión.
1 hr
agree  Maria Vega
1 hr
  -> Gracias, Maria
agree  Christina Courtright
2 hrs
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
B.S., B.A., etc.


Explanation:
Es posible que este documento sea de México, en donde se acostumbra decirle licenciado a cualquier persona con un título universitario (Bachelors). En este caso, la persona es abogado. Yo no lo traduzco. A veces pongo una nota del traductor indicando que es un título usado por personas con un Bachelors en diferentes campos.







--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-04-13 16:21:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Si quisieras agregar algo, podrías poner \"counselor\", otra manera de decir attorney/lawyer, que se usa antes del nombre.

teju
Local time: 13:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 32
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
leave it out


Explanation:
In English, we don't name people by their titles, i.e. the lawyer "Maria X." is just called "María X."

In Spanish-speaking countries, everyone who has a title is called by it. It is different in English-speaking countries. For example, Mary Smith (a teacher) is Ms., Miss or Mrs. Smith in an English-speaking coutry, but in Latin America it is a lack of respect for her status as a teacher to call her Srta or Sra Smith. She is la maestra Smith, or often, Maestra Mary. In English, we would not call her Teacher Mary or Teacher Smith. She is also called Maestra if the highest degree she holds is a Master´s, whatever her profession.

Similarily, if she is an engineer, she is la ing. Smith; if an arquitect, la arq. Smith. etc.

In Spanish, a person who has a licenciatura is not called Sr., Srta., Sra, but Lic. In English we do not have this custom , and so the cultural equivalent of "Lic." is just Ms., Miss or Mrs. Or, if it is in a context (as this one) where we would not even use such a courtesy title, simply leave it out. Call her María X. así nomás. The information about her being an attorney and notary is there anyway, following her name.


Margaret Schroeder
Mexico
Local time: 13:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28
Grading comment
This was a tough one to grade. Everyone suggeston helped me a bit. I decided to leave it out, especially if the 'abogadO' refers to Maria (one of my questions). Thank you all very much.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  skport: I agree - if you put 'lawyer' or similar here, you will be mentioning it twice. No need for this in English.
5 mins
agree  David Heim: I would leave it out, especially since the same sentence later describes her proffesion as that of lawyer.
10 mins
agree  Claudia Luque Bedregal
7 hrs
agree  Michele Fauble
7 hrs
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
attorney, lawyer


Explanation:
Yes, she is the attorney, but just like you don't call a female pilot a "pilota" but a "piloto", you can call a female lawyer an "abogado"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2005-04-13 16:17:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Especially, when taking in consiration the context (she is representing XXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXX), she must be the legal counsel for said XXXXXXXX.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2005-04-13 17:04:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

you might just want to put ...Maria, Esquire (or simply \"Esq.\"), in your translation

J. Sanchez
Local time: 15:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Henry Hinds: In this case we know she is an attorney.
4 mins
  -> Thank you, Henry! But she is not only an attorney, she "actua em (sic) representacion de...". So, she is XXXX Esq.
agree  Adyfromdr: Yes, when we say Licenciado(a)...means that that person is a "certified lawyer"...which means that Licenciada and abogada is the same thing (in this case).
16 mins
  -> Yes, Thank you, Ady!
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