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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

patrimoines bloqués

English translation:

inaccessible family assets

Added to glossary by Wendy Cummings
Mar 24, 2011 19:55
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

patrimoines bloqués

French to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. demographics
Discussing the increase in life expectancy and the effects this will have for society:

La famille est perçue comme la première bénéficiaire de l’allongement de la durée de la vie, 85% estimant que c’est plutôt une bonne chose pour la transmission des savoirs, des expériences, 76% pour la solidarité familiale, 68% pour les rapports entre les générations et 64% pour la transmission du patrimoine d’une génération à l’autre. Ce dernier point vient clairement en contrepoint de certains discours médiatiques sur la perspective de « patrimoines bloqués » pour les jeunes générations.

??Inaccessibility of ....??

All ideas appreciated!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 inaccessible family assets
4 +5 delayed inheritances
4 blocked off heritage
4 withheld inheritances
3 tied-up wealth
2 blocked legacies

Discussion

Kirsten Bodart Mar 25, 2011:
Yes, it seems to be only about money... I think I was too much based on what has been going on in the Belgian press (or at least until a few months ago) where there are bouts of discussion going on about the problem of older people increasingly getting out of society/work. So, yes, sorry for the confusion. I should have read it a few times more, I think. :s
Jocelyne S Mar 25, 2011:
With Sylvain I agree with Sylvain and BD Finch. This is only referring to assets/the estate. You cannot overlook the fact that the sentence begins with "Ce dernier point"(i.e. the "tranmission du patrimoine...") and does not refer to the other more social reasons stated earlier in the sentence.
cc in nyc Mar 25, 2011:
@ Sylvain A bit cynical about the media, eh?
Sylvain Lourme Mar 25, 2011:
And "discours médiatiques" are only concerned about money, don't think they're much interested in culture! Sadly enough. Well, this last comment is obviously quite subjective.
Sylvain Lourme Mar 25, 2011:
@lydiar it would be the case if the sentence talked about the whole list, but as it only refers to the last item of the list, I am 100% sure the meaning here is restricted to assets/wealth. In fact, I didn't for a second imagine it was otherwise until I read some of the answers and comments. Où sont mes compatriotes pour confirmer ma lecture ? :-)
lydiar Mar 25, 2011:
both meanings... I'm with cc in nyc's first thoughts that this a play on the double meaning of patrimoine (incl. the use of guillmets).
Sylvain Lourme Mar 25, 2011:
Yes, the two occurences of "patrimoine" refer to the same thing. First there's a list of item, the last one being "patrimoine", and then the author discusses this last item in particular, saying that the result of the survey goes against what is generally believed to be true regarding "transmission de patrimoine".
cc in nyc Mar 25, 2011:
@ Sylvain So you think it's "assets" in both instances? I could go along with that, too.
Sylvain Lourme Mar 25, 2011:
Patrimoine, selon moi, n'a bien qu'un sens ici. Je comprends la tentation d'y voir davantage, mais étant donné le contexte, le dernier point de la liste ne fait clairement allusion qu'au simple patrimoine matériel (les idées, les valeurs, etc. ayant déjà été citées dans les points précédents). C'est d'ailleurs le sens de base, le plus courant, du mot. Les emplois comme "patrimoine mondial de l'Unesco" sont utilisés de manière figurée.
cc in nyc Mar 25, 2011:
patrimoine à deux sens I believe two different meanings of patrimoine are in play here – first "heritage," then, in the final sentence "inheritance." I think this also explains the use of the guillemets in the latter instance, to emphasize the change in meaning.
B D Finch Mar 24, 2011:
heritage or inheritance? It could be that interpreting this as about cultural heritage rather than money is privileging what you want it to mean over what it is linguisitically likely to mean.
"Certes, ils ont de grandes fortunes, mais leur patrimoine est souvent bloqué dans des (Le Figaro)" http://fr.bab.la/dictionnaire/anglais-francais/locked
"Le patrimoine familial est bloqué pour de nombreuses années. On peut, néanmoins, noter que ce régime est adapté pour la protection du conjoint survivant, ..."
www.francecession.com/communaute-universelle.html
"Transmission de patrimoine > Dans ma famille, une succession est actuellement bloquée car l'un des héritiers reste introuvable. ..."
www.leparticulier.fr/.../dans-ma-famille-une-succession-est... -
Kirsten Bodart Mar 24, 2011:
Yes, I think it means all that an older person is: his knowledge, life experience, people's knowledge, work ethics, etc etc. Can you do womething with 'cut off' or 'obstruction' (although that one, to me, says that the obstruction will eventually fade away)?
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 24, 2011:
My understanding is it means that, when the older generation dies, we also lose their cultural experiences (contrast this with the "savoirs/experiences" - perhaps life experience - mentioned in the previous sentence). e.g. there is no one left to tell us about life during the war. So i'm looking for a nice way of saying this - i'm not keen on "blocked"

Proposed translations

+4
26 mins
Selected

inaccessible family assets

family assets inaccessible to the younger generations
Peer comment(s):
agree cc in nyc
5 hrs
agree Sylvain Lourme : Oui, je suis d'accord avec ça.
6 hrs
agree Jocelyne S : Absolutely.
11 hrs
agree Kirsten Bodart
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I like "family assets" rather than inheritance, thanks to everyone for their input."
3 mins

blocked legacies

I think they're just saying that as the population gets older, so the younger generation has to wait longer to inherit from their older family members. I'm sure there's a more elegant way of putting this than my suggestion, though!
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : I think this is the right idea, but I prefer the phrasing of some of the other entries,
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
9 mins

blocked off heritage

'patrimoine' must be heritage in my view as it expresses ideas, knowledge, etc of a whole generation. Blocked off because because it has been blocked for younger generations by older generations getting out of society (in retirement homes, off the job market for example).
Reference:

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/patrimoine

Note from asker:
Yes, I agree with your understanding of patrimoine. Given the occurrence in the preceding sentence, I don't think it can mean "inheritance"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sylvain Lourme : See my discussion entry. On the contrary it does mean "inheritance", BECAUSE it is mentioned in the preceding sentence, and then it says "ce dernier point, etc." The sentence is referring to, and only to the preceding item of the list = the inheritance
7 hrs
You're right. See my response above.
Something went wrong...
+5
1 hr

delayed inheritances

The sense here is surely of family homes denied to young families with children as they are still inhabited by the older generation.

This is a recurrent trope in 19th/early 20th c. novels, enabling dramatic reversals of fortune, and much comedy from impecunious chaps trying not to offend ancient aunts whose decease will hopefully make them rich.

"Delayed inheritance" has millions of hits on google, though mostly referring to situations where the testator has actually died, and the legacy has hit legal difficulties.
Peer comment(s):
agree B D Finch : Probably better in the singular.
1 hr
neutral cc in nyc : I think this is very close, but I'm not sure how it meshes with "pour les jeunes générations." Also, I suspect it has more to do with family assets/wealth than with taking up residence in the deceased's home.
4 hrs
neutral Sylvain Lourme : As much as I like your reference, I agree with cc in nyc that this is a reference to assets/wealth in general, and not just the houses.
5 hrs
agree lydiar : in singular though, inheritance can easily mean both houses and other assets.
6 hrs
agree rkillings : To put it baldly. Not necessarily granny's house, but her fortune, large or small. Her heirs are impatient for her to croak.
8 hrs
agree Jocelyne S : The idea of "bloqué" in the ST is that the money/estate is there [they know they will inherit it] but inaccessible [so long as X is still alive].
9 hrs
agree MatthewLaSon
2 days 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 17 hrs

tied-up wealth

Maybe...
Reference:

http://www.fasttrack.co.uk/fasttrack/articles/2010pt-ubs.pdf

Something went wrong...
2 days 6 hrs

withheld inheritances

Hello,

This might work well here.

patrimoines = inheritances

bloqués = withheld

who withheld inheritances from adult children until the widow's death or remarriage, did women control a greater portion of the family holdings. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0807848824...


I hope this helps.
Something went wrong...
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