This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Oct 25, 2010 09:32
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

huitième art

Non-PRO Not for points French to English Art/Literary Philosophy Art forms
This is more an issue of philosophical discussion than a translation question since I suspect there is no real consensus, neither within a single language nor - obviously - across languages and cultures.

My author (in the building business) refers to photography as the huitième art.

Various proponents claim that this title goes to cinema, even haute couture, and there are probably others too. A few - especially in French - suggest photography.

There is a well argued case for the nine art forms being as follows:

1er art : L’ARCHITECTURE
2ème art : la sculpture
3ème art : la peinture
4ème art : la danse
5ème art : la musique
6ème art : la poésie
7ème art : le cinéma
8ème art : la télévision
9ème art : la bande dessinée
[The ranking of the first six of these is attributed to Hegel.]
http://jolagier.blog.lemonde.fr/2005/01/14/2005_01_questce_q...

No mention of photography there!

In English, a Wikipedia article on Hegel skips dancing:
1. The third and final part concerns itself with the examination of each of the five major art forms in ascending order:
1. architecture
2. sculpture
3. painting
4. music
5. poetry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_on_Aesthetics

But again, no (post Hegelian) photography.

What does the panel think and what can the panel come up with? Any phervent, strongly opinon(at)ed fotografers out there?
Proposed translations (English)
2 BD
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (1): Steffen Walter

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Discussion

Alison Sabedoria (X) Nov 5, 2010:
Probably wise! I'm rather surprised there was so little input on this one.
Bourth (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2010:
In the end since "8e art" in my text was simply a "keyword" introducing a short article about an amateur photographer, I avoided the issue and left out a number, saying simply "Art form XX speaks of his love of photography ..."
Alison Sabedoria (X) Oct 25, 2010:
Works for me, SMcG! Your order makes sense. I agree with Woody about TV.
SMcG (X) Oct 25, 2010:
8th: Photography / Haute Couture / TV Photography is sometimes put in the 6th (to make chronological sense as it was invented before cinema and just after Hegel wrote his original five). But I think it took time to develop into a modern "artform", whilst cinema is really THE modern artform of the early 20th century. In that sense, to me photography makes more sense in the 8th and cinema 7th, theatre 6th. Personally, I consider photography as a 'métier', like cooking and not an artform per se, tho both a photographer and a chef would argue against that and John Cassavetes would say love is an art. TV? I agree with Woody Allen "It's an appliance, not an artform".
Alison Sabedoria (X) Oct 25, 2010:
I'll kick off, then duck. There seems to be a fairly solid concensus on photography before cinema in (for argument's sake) high-brow circles. Amongst those at the more - I'm going to risk stirring up a hornet's nest here - low-brow/popular end of the arts, it seems to be television or even video games, leaving out photography, at least according to the great Gogol. The arts have long been a favourite battle ground for the class war, and as photography has been so universally embraced, available to all levels of society, kicking it into the long grass seems an odd and ungrateful thing to do. Is this a rejection of "arty-farty" photography as elitist or what? As one of the "arty-farty-photo" crowd, my vote's firmly for photography. The French list is interestingly argued, but without photography, there would be no cinema or television and only the French would think of putting the bande dessinée. Cinema is worth of inclusion, but only if theatre is in there too.<p>I'm writing this quickly because my brioche dough is nearly risen, so please don't ask me to give 3 reasons and draw a map!<p>Maybe the real eighth art is that of diplomatic translation!<p>
Provocatively yours,
Alison

Proposed translations

2 hrs

BD

Parfois qualifiée de « huitième art », la bande dessinée peut être un outil intéres- sant pour entrer dans l’univers artistique. Sans doute son utilisation dans la classe permet-elle d’amener les élèves à l’art et l’histoire des arts. Il faut alors se demander comment et à quelles conditions.

Quarante ans plus tard, le même processus se répète. En effet, en 1964, Morris et Pierre Vankeer décident de publier chaque semaine dans le journal Spirou une série d'articles sur l'histoire de la bande dessinée. Ils envisagent dans un premier temps de titrer cette rubrique le Huitième Art, mais des techniciens du journal signalent aux auteurs qu'il existe déjà un 8e art : la télévision, alors en plein développement. Dans le premier article paru sous le titre Neuvième Art, musée de la bande dessinée, il reste une trace de cette hésitation : « Les bandes dessinées sont nées avant le cinématographe de MM. Lumière. Mais on ne les a guère prises au sérieux pendant les premières décennies de leur existence, et c'est pourquoi la série d'articles qui débute aujourd'hui s'appellera 9e Art[12]. » Cette phrase qui a perdu tout son sens, le retrouve si l'on remplace dans la phrase 9e par 8e art. Souvent la création du 9e art est attribuée à Francis Lacassin, auteur du livre Pour un neuvième art, la bande dessinée[13], mais ce livre ne date que de 1971, 7 ans après les articles de Spirou.
Note from asker:
Thanks for answering, Pablo. No one else entered an actual Answer, so I'm not even given the option of awarding points.
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