Nov 28, 2018 13:46
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
Pachuco
Spanish to English
Other
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Informal/Mexican Spanish
I am looking for the British equivalent of a Mexican 'Pachuco' from the 1950s. I have Wiki'd and gone to various other sources but I need someone with deep Mexican knowledge to enlighten me! I am not sure 'punk' or 'mod' quite cut it so perhaps I SHOULD leave it as Pachuco with a footnote. Thank you. Here is a bit more context: https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/264395-pachucos-pandill...
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +4 | pachuco |
Natalia Luna Luna
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| 3 +3 | Pachuco ("anarchic dandy") |
Charles Davis
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Change log
Nov 28, 2018 13:48: Ana Beard changed "Restriction (Native Lang)" from "eng" to "esl"
Proposed translations
+4
17 mins
Natalia Luna Luna
Netherlands
Netherlands
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Netherlands
English-Spanish-Italian-Norwegian
Native in: Spanish (Variants: Latin American, Standard-Spain) 
Works in: English to Spanish, Italian to Spanish, Spanish to Italian, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
pachuco
'Pachucos' were socially accepted gangs in Chicago in the fiftees. In Mexico, they were part of popular culture and not really gangs. We have the actor Tin-tan as a very good example of what a Pachuco is, characterized by the way they dress and the type of music they liked to dance. by no means the term correspond to 'punk'or any other urban cultures. Besides, the term is very well known even for English speakers in the USA. therefore, I suggest to leave the term 'pachuco' and to explain its meaning on a footnote. I am a Mexican scholar.
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Note added at 29 mins (2018-11-28 14:16:03 GMT)
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Music to dance, that characterises Pachuco culture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Lf81W0vpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we9KqZq0Hvo
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Note added at 29 mins (2018-11-28 14:16:03 GMT)
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Music to dance, that characterises Pachuco culture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Lf81W0vpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we9KqZq0Hvo
Reference:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pachuco
http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/pachuco/
Note from asker:
| Thanks for clarifying Natalia, I will take the consensus advice on leaving this lovely word as it is. |
| Thank you. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Charles Davis
9 mins
|
| agree |
Robert Carter
: I imagine you're right about the US, although British speakers probably wouldn't have a clue, so some sort of footnote is in order.
35 mins
|
| agree |
neilmac
: I'm a UK speaker and thanks to books and movies I know what cholos and pachucos are... We're not all Mr Bean!
2 hrs
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| agree |
Alfie Mendez
: It is a term to be left as is, with a footnote. Excellent answer.
4 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
26 mins
Pachuco ("anarchic dandy")
I do not have a profound knowledge of Mexico or pachucos, but I can say with complete confidence that you have got to leave this word in Spanish and, if you can, explain it the first time it comes up.
As a general matter of principle it is almost always going to be a mistake to translate a term of this kind. Obviously if it's an international phenomenon it can be done, but Pachucos are so extraordinary, so specific to Mexico (and Mexican communities in the US), that there is really nothing else like them.
A very good place to look is the beginning of Octavio Paz's El laberinto de la soledad, mentioned in the article you've cited, which is available in English. See the section starting on page 9:
https://www.amazon.com/Labyrinth-Solitude-Mexico-Return-Phil...
The phrase "anarchic dandy" strikes me as the best two-word description you could come up with. "Zoot-suited punks/rebels" would be worth considering. But not as translations, just as possible descriptions for your initial note.
"Paz derided the pachuco as an anarchic dandy, a citizen of nowhere, a cultureless orphan belonging fully to neither the United States or to Mexico. "
https://books.google.es/books?id=SbkwDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA200&lpg=P...
As a general matter of principle it is almost always going to be a mistake to translate a term of this kind. Obviously if it's an international phenomenon it can be done, but Pachucos are so extraordinary, so specific to Mexico (and Mexican communities in the US), that there is really nothing else like them.
A very good place to look is the beginning of Octavio Paz's El laberinto de la soledad, mentioned in the article you've cited, which is available in English. See the section starting on page 9:
https://www.amazon.com/Labyrinth-Solitude-Mexico-Return-Phil...
The phrase "anarchic dandy" strikes me as the best two-word description you could come up with. "Zoot-suited punks/rebels" would be worth considering. But not as translations, just as possible descriptions for your initial note.
"Paz derided the pachuco as an anarchic dandy, a citizen of nowhere, a cultureless orphan belonging fully to neither the United States or to Mexico. "
https://books.google.es/books?id=SbkwDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA200&lpg=P...
Note from asker:
| I love anarchic dandy, but I will take your advice. Pachuco does indeed seem to be a very specific, unique word/concept. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Robert Carter
: Yes, just as you wouldn't translate "cholo" either today. Not sure about "anarchic dandy" as a descriptor though (pax Paz). Their style, though unique, seems to be a Latin take on the typical 1930's Chicago gangsters.
25 mins
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Thanks, Robert. A footnote on this could easily turn into an essay. Perhaps there is an element of 1930s Chicago in there. But I don't get the impression that they are entirely based on US models. Fascinating stuff!
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| agree |
neilmac
: Isn't that just Brylcreem? :-)
1 hr
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Thanks, Neil :-) "Zoot suit" seems irresistible, but to me there's a very Hispanic element in the look, an touch of old-fashioned elegance.
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| agree |
Chema Nieto Castañón
: Sospecho que unruly o freewheeling resultarían tal vez más ajustados aquí (vs. anarchic); Paz derided the pachuco as an unruly/freewheeling dandy, a citizen of nowhere, a cultureless orphan...
1 day 12 hrs
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Muchas gracias, Chema :-) Tal vez, sí.
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Discussion