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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

behavior

French translation:

silence, silence ou inaction

Added to glossary by Germaine
Nov 22, 2018 10:30
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

behavior

English to French Other Law (general) puchase conditions
Dear all,

I am translating these puchase conditions and here comes this sentence:

We reserve the right to amend our General Conditions of Purchase from time to time. Contractor agrees to
the sole applicability of the amended General Conditions of Purchase if and to the extent he does not object in
writing within one week after delivery and if we pointed out the consequences of his behavior when making the
announcement of the changed General Conditions of Purchase.

I can't see any link between the first part and the second of this sentence. Why are we talking about the Contractor's behavior pointed out by the Client when announcing the changes in the Purchase conditions?
My try:
"Le Signataire accepte d’appliquer les conditions générales d’achat modifiées dans la mesure où il ne s’y oppose pas par écrit dans un délai d’une semaine après qu’elles lui ont été envoyées et si nous avons souligné les conséquences de son comportement....?"

Merci pour votre aide
Proposed translations (French)
5 silence, silence ou inaction
4 -1 les conséquences de son comportement / les conséquences de ses réponses possibles à la notification
5 -2 attitude
4 -2 son initiative
3 -2 droits et obligations
Change log

Nov 26, 2018 14:56: Germaine Created KOG entry

Discussion

Daryo Nov 22, 2018:
to be fair B D Finch never said that it was HER way of thinking - it was only a (truly!) memorable reply from someone else.
Germaine Nov 22, 2018:
B D Finch, I agree with Daryo on this one! You shouldn’t make a rule of such an assertion. All clients are not "arseholes" and would they be, they still deserve a little respect. My clients are coming back year after year for the very reason that I consider myself as a partner and yes, I’m paid to make sure they don’t look like they were high on some stuff.
Daryo Nov 22, 2018:
@ B D Finch
"You're not paid to make that arsehole look intelligent."

Touché! Could apply to a number of clients, but when you are professional, you simply can't let it pass under your watch ... however strong the temptation could be.
B D Finch Nov 22, 2018:
Silence Good solution, except that the text "to the extent he does not object in writing" applies if he objects over the phone or if he sends a letter that isn't a definite objection, e.g. asking a question or trying to negotiate. So, perhaps "silence ou réponse" ?
VeroniquePhelut (asker) Nov 22, 2018:
Silence Silence me parait une très bonne option oui ! Merci @Germaine pour votre suggestion.
Germaine Nov 22, 2018:
https://www.google.ca/search?ei=W8z2W8q9KIel_Qboj7WQDg&q="co...

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=N8z2W4iIFq62ggfpkLzICg&q="co...
Germaine Nov 22, 2018:
Véronique, Le texte est effectivement maladroit, mais je crois comme vous que la "delivery" vise l’acheminement de l’avis de modification. Quant au "comportement", dans ce genre de cas, il vise généralement soit la réponse, soit le silence:

Nous nous réservons le droit de modifier nos conditions générales d’achat de temps à autre. [L’Entrepreneur] [le Contractant] [L’Acheteur] accepte que seules s’appliquent les conditions générales d’achat modifiées s’il ne s’y oppose pas par écrit dans le délai d’une semaine après réception de l’avis de modification et si cet avis précise les conséquences d’un silence de sa part.
B D Finch Nov 22, 2018:
@Daryo I think that there might be a valid objection to it as unfair terms of contract! Presumably "delivery" does mean when the post person popped the new conditions through the letterbox and one week hardly seems a reasonable period for consideration and response (especially if the Contractor is on holiday or it was delivered on Christmas Eve). But, none of that is relevant for the purposes of translation. Many years ago, I pointed out, to my line manager, some mistakes in a letter I was copy typing for the Managing Director (somebody she absolutely loathed) and asked her whether I shouldn't tidy it up. Her memorable response was "You're not paid to make that arsehole look intelligent."
Daryo Nov 22, 2018:
another clumsy formulation

We reserve the right to amend our General Conditions of Purchase from time to time. Contractor agrees to the sole applicability of the amended General Conditions of Purchase if and to the extent he does not object in writing within one week after delivery and if we pointed out the consequences of his behavior when making the announcement of the changed General Conditions of Purchase

"delivery" of what? Some goods or services? Makes no sense.

What they had in mind:

"one week after these amended General Conditions of Purchase were delivered to you/the Contractor" - you could say it that way, but the appropriate term is "notified" (not necessarily by any kind of physical "delivery", in fact), so it should be:

"... to the extent he does not object in writing within one week after being notified [of them/the changed T&C of Purchase]"

Same for "we pointed out the consequences of his behaviour"

sounds almost like a teacher warning a pupil for his bad behaviour, not the kind of language you would expect in a contract!;

You could call the reaction (or the absence of reaction) to changed T&C "behaviour", but that not really the best term to use in contract.
B D Finch Nov 22, 2018:
Should one make sense of it? When translating legal documents, there can be a danger in tidying up things that look wrong. We are translators, not lawyers (and we're paid less than lawyers), so it might be best simply to point out the problem to the client, while translating the source text fairly literally.
Kevin Oheix Nov 22, 2018:
Les conséquences de ses actions, ce qu'il risque.
VeroniquePhelut (asker) Nov 22, 2018:
It originates from Germany, so yes, it could be a non-native writer indeed!Thanks for your explanation, lots more clearer now.
Tony M Nov 22, 2018:
@ Asker This sounds to me like decidely iffy EN! Do you know what country it originates from? I'm suspecting perhaps a non-native writer...

I suspect the 'behavior' they are referring to is in fact "does not object to the new conditions within the stipulated time" — in other words, if they fail to do so ("does not..." = the behavior), then the conditions will be imposed anyway willy-nilly; it makes no provision at all, of course, for what happnes if they DO object to the new conditions!

BTW, I think your « d'appliquer » is probably not going to work here; it seems to me that it is the "we" (Customer?) who is imposing these conditions, not the other way around; so probably more likely « l'application de... » (these seem to be Purchasing T&C rather than Sales ones?)

Proposed translations

6 hrs
Selected

silence, silence ou inaction

[Le Contractant] [L’Acheteur] accepte que seules s’appliquent les conditions générales d’achat modifiées s’il ne s’y oppose pas par écrit dans le délai d’une semaine après réception de l’avis de modification et si cet avis précise les conséquences d’un silence de sa part.

Puisqu’on parle d’un avis écrit, je m’en tiens à "silence", mais on trouve aussi « d’un silence ou d’une inaction ».

Dans un arrêt du 24 mai 2005, la Cour de cassation a estimé que « si, en principe, le silence ne vaut pas à lui seul acceptation, il n’en est pas de même lorsque les circonstances permettent de donner à ce silence la signification d’une acceptation »
https://aurelienbamde.com/2017/01/27/le-regime-juridique-de-...

…Passé ce délai, le silence du fournisseur vaudra acceptation pure et simple de l’intégralité des présentes conditions générales d’achat.
http://www.fonderie-de-gentilly.com/FR/index.awp?A8

Le Fournisseur déclare expressément par les présentes qu’à défaut d’accord expresse de sa part en sens contraire (i) l’absence de réserves sur la commande ne saurait se déduire de son inaction ou de son silence,…
https://www.alynox-alcen.com/fr/conditions-generales-de-vent...
Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X)
24 mins
Merci, ph-b.
disagree Daryo : * le Vendeur * - these are T&C imposed by the Buyer on the Seller // about right, but amounts to rewriting the ST quite extensively, with the danger of "adding" unintended "nuances" that could lose a litigation => "handle with care" // CL5? no way!
1 hr
ok // This is a translation (in French), not a dictation. To add "nuances", I would have used "est réputé"// CL5, yes. This is quite standard - selon mon expérience.
agree GILLES MEUNIER
1 day 15 hrs
Merci, Gilou.
disagree Mohamed Hosni : How can be silent when he is making announcement !?.
1 day 23 hrs
The person making the announcement is not the person being silent. "A" makes the announcement; "B" does not answer; "B" is silent.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
19 mins

droits et obligations

Je pense qu'il s'agit d'informer en quoi les modifications aux conditions générales ont des conséquence sur ce que le client peut et doit faire.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : That would, of course, be the case... but it's not actually what 'behavior' is being used to mean here.
51 mins
disagree Daryo : ways too general - like translating "sports car of the model XYZ, rolled out of the production line the year YYYY, with optional gadgets A, B and C, but not D and E" by the whole of "un véhicule"
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
3 hrs
English term (edited): consequences of his behavior

les conséquences de son comportement / les conséquences de ses réponses possibles à la notification

We reserve the right to amend our General Conditions of Purchase from time to time. Contractor agrees to the sole applicability of the amended General Conditions of Purchase if and to the extent he does not object in writing within one week after delivery and if we pointed out the consequences of his behavior when making the announcement of the changed General Conditions of Purchase.

Le Fournisseur accepte que seules seront applicables les Conditions générales d'achat [telles que] modifiées, dans la mesure où il n'a présenté aucune objection par écrit dans un délai d'une semaine après notification [des amendements] et que nous avons inclus dans notre notification des amendements aux Conditions générales de vente un avertissement concernant les conséquences de son comportement [/ de ses réponses possibles à la notification (des amendements)].

even the most literal translation "les conséquences de son comportement" could do, not really wrong - just clumsy.

otherwise:

"les conséquences de ses réponses possibles à la notification"

IOW if we put a warning in our "notification of changes to the T&C ..." that the absence of any response will mean tacit acceptation of the changes, and you don't react - ONLY the amended T&C will be applicable henceforth, no ifs, no buts ...

Note from asker:
Thank you Dario ! I mean, I could never have found this meaning myself, I still find the English so awfully written. I think you are right in the suggestion you 've given. Merci !
Peer comment(s):
neutral Germaine : To "object in writing", en FR, c’est un geste, une action, pas une façon d’être; http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/comportement. Contractor is asked to object if he disagrees. What happen if there’s no objection/answer? Btw, "amendement" applies to laws.// ?
5 hrs
p
disagree Mohamed Hosni : As before, very long suggestions .
2 days 7 hrs
Truly and deeply sorry for overstretching your attention span ...
Something went wrong...
-2
1 day 2 hrs

son initiative

Il me semble

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 jour 2 heures (2018-11-23 13:08:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

si nous lui avons fait des objections sur les conséquences de cette initiative.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : The 'behavior' in this instance would be 'failure to raise objections' — which could hardly be referred to as an 'inititative( — the absence thereof, perhaps!
18 hrs
disagree Daryo : industrial action = workers not working // I don't think that applying the same logic here would work!
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
1 day 21 hrs

attitude

"behavior " can be translated also into (attitude ) and that it is the case in this context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2018-11-24 09:24:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Disagree, and explanation not convincing the context.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : This couldn't possibly be the meaning required here, and in any caqse, is not the sort of term one would want to find in a contract.
22 mins
Disagree, and explanation not convincing the context.
disagree Daryo : you seem to have your own homegrown definition of what is "context", not exactly the generally accepted one ...
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
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