Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
distraction de patrimoine
English translation:
splitting off/division/alienation of assets/estate
Added to glossary by
Elizabeth Niklewska
Jul 23, 2017 15:05
6 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
More than 10 years' experience
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, French to English, Polish to English
distraction de patrimoine
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Forestry contract
From an agreement on the provision of forestry services.
The queried terms are in asterisks
Charte de gestion forestière durable
Société Forestière de la Caisse des Dépôts
Principes directeurs
Répartition des rôles
Dans le respect de la loi et des règlements, les propriétaires décident des orientations de gestion forestière, sur la base de propositions de la Société Forestière mobilisant les compétences de son personnel et bénéficiant de l'avis des autres parties intéressées.
Les décisions relatives à la mise en valeur, la conservation ou la *distraction de patrimoine* reviennent aux propriétaires.
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The IATE suggestion
"distraction d'un bien de l'actif" = "withdrawal of property from the assets" seems to make sense to me as giving an indication of meaning.
So I have put "withdrawal of an estate" (estate seems to make sense when referring to forestry holdings) but it does not quite sound right to me and feels like we need to know from what it is being withdrawn
I have found numerous official forestry related texts in Google mentioning "distraction du régime forestier"
with this definition:
La distraction du régime forestier est l'acte contraire de l'application de régime forestier (anciennement soumission)
which has a nice PROZ suggested translation of
"forest governed by/subject to regional forest management policy"
And am tempted to put a translator's note suggesting that this might be relevant.
The queried terms are in asterisks
Charte de gestion forestière durable
Société Forestière de la Caisse des Dépôts
Principes directeurs
Répartition des rôles
Dans le respect de la loi et des règlements, les propriétaires décident des orientations de gestion forestière, sur la base de propositions de la Société Forestière mobilisant les compétences de son personnel et bénéficiant de l'avis des autres parties intéressées.
Les décisions relatives à la mise en valeur, la conservation ou la *distraction de patrimoine* reviennent aux propriétaires.
*********************************************************
The IATE suggestion
"distraction d'un bien de l'actif" = "withdrawal of property from the assets" seems to make sense to me as giving an indication of meaning.
So I have put "withdrawal of an estate" (estate seems to make sense when referring to forestry holdings) but it does not quite sound right to me and feels like we need to know from what it is being withdrawn
I have found numerous official forestry related texts in Google mentioning "distraction du régime forestier"
with this definition:
La distraction du régime forestier est l'acte contraire de l'application de régime forestier (anciennement soumission)
which has a nice PROZ suggested translation of
"forest governed by/subject to regional forest management policy"
And am tempted to put a translator's note suggesting that this might be relevant.
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Distraction |
ph-b (X)
|
Proposed translations
-1
9 hrs
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois)
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
1362
Selected
splitting/division/alienation of (national) assets/estate
Along these lines I think
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Ben Gaia
: this is four answers not one
8 days
|
| disagree |
ph-b (X)
: I don't usually disagree with Confidence Level 3 answers but a bit of red is needed here to alert future readers about the fact that this answer cannot be a safe translation. Please refer to Jer1's answer below and to my reference notes.
10 days
|
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I opted for this simple option in the end, as there was no additional context in the text. An additional note suggesting Jer1's (and my) thoughts were a possibility was the safest approach"
5 hrs
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
104
carve-out/selling of equity stake in the business
A carve-out is the partial divestiture of a business unit in which a parent company sells minority interest of a child company to outside investors. A company undertaking a carve-out is not selling a business unit outright but, instead, is selling an equity stake in that business or spinning the business off on its own while retaining an equity stake itself. A carve-out allows a company to capitalize on a business segment that may not be part of its core operations.
Source: Investopedia
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-07-23 20:48:00 GMT)
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DISTRACTION, s.f.
Démembrement, séparation d'une partie d'avec son tout. On a demandé distraction de cette terre. On a fait distraction de fief. En ce sens il ne se dit qu'en parlant d'affaires.
DISTRACTION, signifie aussi L'inapplication d'une personne aux choses qui la doivent occuper. Il est sujet à des distractions dans ses prières. Il a de fréquentes distractions.
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I
Source: Investopedia
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-07-23 20:48:00 GMT)
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DISTRACTION, s.f.
Démembrement, séparation d'une partie d'avec son tout. On a demandé distraction de cette terre. On a fait distraction de fief. En ce sens il ne se dit qu'en parlant d'affaires.
DISTRACTION, signifie aussi L'inapplication d'une personne aux choses qui la doivent occuper. Il est sujet à des distractions dans ses prières. Il a de fréquentes distractions.
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I
+2
22 hrs
withdrawal from the legal regime governing forested land
You're entirely correct in asserting that it can't be something illegal since very obviously we're dealing with a legal document emanating from a public body laying out the rights of forestry owners under the legal regime of property management.
To my mind, the term 'patrimoine' in this instance does not group a list of things together according to their ownership ie an estate but rather according to their type ie forested lands. This isn't very common in everyday language but the term 'patrimoine forestier' does exist and gives many returns on google.
'Distraction' is a legal act that removes the land in question from the legal regime that governs forestry. It's used when the owner wants to have restrictions on the use of that land lifted. A public body might want to build car park on the edge of a forest and would be obliged to change the status of the land in question before it could proceed.
The sentence could be translated as:
'Decisions concerning the productivity or conservation of forested land or the application for the withdrawal of forested land from the statutory rules/legal regime governing forestry belong to the owner'.
To my mind, the term 'patrimoine' in this instance does not group a list of things together according to their ownership ie an estate but rather according to their type ie forested lands. This isn't very common in everyday language but the term 'patrimoine forestier' does exist and gives many returns on google.
'Distraction' is a legal act that removes the land in question from the legal regime that governs forestry. It's used when the owner wants to have restrictions on the use of that land lifted. A public body might want to build car park on the edge of a forest and would be obliged to change the status of the land in question before it could proceed.
The sentence could be translated as:
'Decisions concerning the productivity or conservation of forested land or the application for the withdrawal of forested land from the statutory rules/legal regime governing forestry belong to the owner'.
37 mins
withdrawal of asset management
My suggestion...or "opt-out of forest management arrangements" (plain English version)
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-07-23 20:49:51 GMT)
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Perhaps the usual critical geniuses would care to offer their more accurate translation along with their poorly thought out criticisms.
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Note added at 9 days (2017-08-02 05:34:03 GMT) Post-grading
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fyi "Regime foestier" is defined as a system of management: eg " Les forêts relevant du « régime forestier » (hors parties classées en réserves intégrales, réserves naturelles ou autres statuts particuliers de protection) sont généralement astreintes à un régime obligatoire de planification de leur GESTION qui intègre les interventions directement liées à la GESTION courante (planification ou réglementation des coupes, de la cueillette, de la chasse, limitation du passage des véhicules, etc.)." (Wikipedia)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-07-23 20:49:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps the usual critical geniuses would care to offer their more accurate translation along with their poorly thought out criticisms.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 days (2017-08-02 05:34:03 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
fyi "Regime foestier" is defined as a system of management: eg " Les forêts relevant du « régime forestier » (hors parties classées en réserves intégrales, réserves naturelles ou autres statuts particuliers de protection) sont généralement astreintes à un régime obligatoire de planification de leur GESTION qui intègre les interventions directement liées à la GESTION courante (planification ou réglementation des coupes, de la cueillette, de la chasse, limitation du passage des véhicules, etc.)." (Wikipedia)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I can't see where you get "management" from; seems to me it's about withdrawing/removing/splitting assets (land etc.) not the management.)
34 mins
|
|
disagree.. "Regime forestier" is a system of management: eg " Les forêts relevant du « régime forestier »... sont généralement astreintes à un régime obligatoire de planification de leur GESTION qui intègre les interventions directement liées à la GESTION
|
|
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Same remark as AT. Otherwise, yes, this is about "conservation" / "distraction", retaining of removing X from the estate.
4 hrs
|
|
babble
|
Reference comments
8 days
Reference:
Distraction
Le code forestier n’est plus applicable au patrimoine, Le patrimoine est sorti du champ d'application du code forestier is what it means.
Cf.
Article L231-5 du Code forestier:
Retrait de bois et forêts en vue de la réalisation d'ouvrages d'intérêt général, après distraction du régime forestier.
(https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticl...
Or in this written question from a French senator:
Dans le cas d'un changement de destination d'une parcelle dont la vocation ne sera plus forestière, la commune peut alors solliciter auprès des services de l'Etat une demande de distraction du régime forestier pour la parcelle concernée…. Il lui demande de bien vouloir lui indiquer (…) dans quelles conditions les demandes de distraction du régime forestier peuvent recevoir un avis favorable des services de l'Etat.
https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2006/qSEQ060221724.html
You mention in your question that distraction… est l’acte contraire de l’application (anciennement soumission).
This is from a directive from the French Ministry of Agriculture (http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg... ) and is therefore reliable. It makes the meaning of distraction very clear : it is the opposite of being subject to code forestier, i.e. it doesn’t apply.
It is in fact even more precise than that: the code no longer applies because the wooded areas of the question are subject to it like any other woodland in France except when the code provides for a possibility of distraction: La décision de distraction peut donc être considérée comme l’abrogation de la [previous] décision de soumission
http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg...
This is confirmed here: ce qui ne peut se faire qu’après distraction du régime forestier, c’est-à-dire sortie préalable de ce régime
http://documents.irevues.inist.fr/bitstream/handle/2042/5508...
And here (this is from the Lexique forestier of the French ‘Office National des Forêts’):
RÉGIME. 1) (…)
2) Jur. C. For. art. 1er . Le régime forestier est celui instauré par le code forestier. La procédure à la suite de laquelle le régime s'applique dans une forêt (nouvellement acquise par exemple) est la soumission* [terme remplacé dans les textes législatifs par application du régime forestier depuis 2001]. À l'inverse, le régime forestier cesse de s'appliquer à la suite d'une procédure de distraction*
https://tice.agroparistech.fr/coursenligne/courses/SASGESTIO...
A last note about ‘alienation’: it cannot be part of the answer (sorry, AT and Elizabeth) because distraction precedes it.
Cf. La décision de distraction doit être préalable aux décisions d’aliénation ou d’échange de forêts et à celle d’autorisation de défrichement.
http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg...
I’m not in a position to offer a translation for distraction (meaning ‘withdrawn from the scope of a law’ – wrong words, obviously, but right idea), but a native speaker of English who specializes in legal translations might well be able to.
I know there’s a KudoZ rule somewhere which provides that you’re not supposed to make any comment on askers’ choices and I hope Elizabeth won’t mind my posting this information. My intention here is just to shed some light one one aspect of the term distraction as used in her question.
Cf.
Article L231-5 du Code forestier:
Retrait de bois et forêts en vue de la réalisation d'ouvrages d'intérêt général, après distraction du régime forestier.
(https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticl...
Or in this written question from a French senator:
Dans le cas d'un changement de destination d'une parcelle dont la vocation ne sera plus forestière, la commune peut alors solliciter auprès des services de l'Etat une demande de distraction du régime forestier pour la parcelle concernée…. Il lui demande de bien vouloir lui indiquer (…) dans quelles conditions les demandes de distraction du régime forestier peuvent recevoir un avis favorable des services de l'Etat.
https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2006/qSEQ060221724.html
You mention in your question that distraction… est l’acte contraire de l’application (anciennement soumission).
This is from a directive from the French Ministry of Agriculture (http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg... ) and is therefore reliable. It makes the meaning of distraction very clear : it is the opposite of being subject to code forestier, i.e. it doesn’t apply.
It is in fact even more precise than that: the code no longer applies because the wooded areas of the question are subject to it like any other woodland in France except when the code provides for a possibility of distraction: La décision de distraction peut donc être considérée comme l’abrogation de la [previous] décision de soumission
http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg...
This is confirmed here: ce qui ne peut se faire qu’après distraction du régime forestier, c’est-à-dire sortie préalable de ce régime
http://documents.irevues.inist.fr/bitstream/handle/2042/5508...
And here (this is from the Lexique forestier of the French ‘Office National des Forêts’):
RÉGIME. 1) (…)
2) Jur. C. For. art. 1er . Le régime forestier est celui instauré par le code forestier. La procédure à la suite de laquelle le régime s'applique dans une forêt (nouvellement acquise par exemple) est la soumission* [terme remplacé dans les textes législatifs par application du régime forestier depuis 2001]. À l'inverse, le régime forestier cesse de s'appliquer à la suite d'une procédure de distraction*
https://tice.agroparistech.fr/coursenligne/courses/SASGESTIO...
A last note about ‘alienation’: it cannot be part of the answer (sorry, AT and Elizabeth) because distraction precedes it.
Cf. La décision de distraction doit être préalable aux décisions d’aliénation ou d’échange de forêts et à celle d’autorisation de défrichement.
http://agriculture.gouv.fr/sites/minagri/files/documents//dg...
I’m not in a position to offer a translation for distraction (meaning ‘withdrawn from the scope of a law’ – wrong words, obviously, but right idea), but a native speaker of English who specializes in legal translations might well be able to.
I know there’s a KudoZ rule somewhere which provides that you’re not supposed to make any comment on askers’ choices and I hope Elizabeth won’t mind my posting this information. My intention here is just to shed some light one one aspect of the term distraction as used in her question.
Discussion
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I