Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

trastienda ontológica

English translation:

underlying nature

Added to glossary by Maria Mastruzzo
Aug 29, 2014 01:18
9 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Spanish term

trastienda ontológica

Spanish to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Continuando con una pregunta anterior, estas palabras son parte del nombre de una tesis que aparece en un diploma de Doctorado de Administración de Argentina.
El nombre completo del título de la tesis es: "La trastienda ontológica de los aglomerados en la Argentina. Imaginario e innovación".
El cliente explicó que en la tesis "construyó una teoría para comprender la relación entre la capacidad de innovación de un aglomerado productivo y el imaginario de los actores empresariales que integran el aglomerado".

Muchas gracias por sus sugerencias.

Proposed translations

+4
1 hr
Selected

underlying nature

I suppose you could argue that since the author has chosen to use a word like "ontológica", we should use "ontological" in English. I am suggesting a different approach, partly because I find it difficult to think of a suitable noun for "trastienda", and partly because "ontological ____" in this context really sounds a bit ridiculous in English, to be brutally frank. "Trastienda" presumably means what is behind the scenes, not immediately apparent. "Underlying" seems to me to convey that idea.

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-08-29 02:24:04 GMT)
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I don't think "trastienda" implies anything underhand here.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2014-08-29 11:59:09 GMT)
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You certainly could put "underlying ontology" if you think it's necessary to emulate the Spanish terminology. But I still think this would be a mistake.

Let's be clear about what "ontológica" actually means. Ontology is a philosophical term referring to the metaphysical study of the nature of being and existence. In Spanish, ontología is defined in the DRAE as "Parte de la metafísica que trata del ser en general y de sus propiedades trascendentales".

Perhaps this really is a metaphysical study of business clusters, but it seems very unlikely indeed to me. What seems very likely is that the author is using "ontológica" to mean "related to the being or nature of". In other words, he or she is doing what Spanish-speaking academic authors (and especially those trying to establish their intellectual credentials) are prone to do, and using a high-flown term to express a relatively simple idea. I would be prepared to bet that the thesis is actually about the nature of "aglomerados productivos" and how they really work. It is a business administration thesis, not a philosophy thesis.

Now in this respect, practice is different in English. English academic discourse is very jargon-ridden, but the jargon tends to be related to theories within the area of study in question. Unless the approach is genuinely metaphysical, a word like "ontology" or "ontological" would not be used in an English thesis title in this field, in my opinion. If I were the supervisor I would require it to be changed, not because it's pretentious but because it's (almost certainly) a misuse of the word.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-08-29 12:25:42 GMT)
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José's comment is interesting, however. "Ontological work" seems to me completely unviable, but perhaps it does refer to the entities involved in aglomerados. If so, you might translate it as "underlying entities". But unless we have access to the thesis itself we can't tell whether that is really what it means, and I am not very confident that it is.
Note from asker:
Thank you, Charles. I agree with you, I think "trastienda" here is used in the way you suggest, so "underlying" seems quite appropriate. The author used the word "ontológica" but your suggestion makes more sense to me.
Peer comment(s):

agree neilmac : Keep It Simple...
3 hrs
Thanks, Neil :) Spanish is much more tolerant of words like "ontological" than English.
agree Robert Forstag : They key here is in your response to Neilmac: "ontologico" is far more common in Spanish than "ontological" is in English, and often is best translated by an ordinary English word.
9 hrs
Thanks, Robert. I'm glad you agree. That principle operates in many cases, I think. Spanish weather forecasters never fail to refer to "el archipiélago canario", where in English we would simply say the Canary Islands.
neutral Marina Ilari : In English, as in Spanish, science has an ontology, an epistemology, a methodology and a technique. Therefore, he is clearly meaning to the ontology of the phenomena he is studying, I don't see why it should be ridiculous.
11 hrs
Well, I can only say that it sounds ridiculous to me as an (academic) native speaker. In English it would be very unusual to refer to the ontology of phenomena in this context; it would only be done in philosophy of science.
agree Marian Vieyra
12 hrs
Thanks, Marian!
agree Elizabeth Joy Pitt de Morales : I think it's simple, clear and elegant.
13 hrs
Many thank, Elizabeth :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, Charles, for your contribution and detailed explanation. Thank you for all the valuable contributions."
2 hrs

The back-office ontological work [of corporate groups in Argentina]

La trastienda ontológica de los aglomerados en la Argentina
--->
The back-office ontological work [of corporate groups in Argentina]

COMENTARIO: La "ontología" de una institución (aglomerados en este caso) trata de los "entes", tanto internos externos, que participan en sus procesos, y cómo estos se relacionan e interactúan para cumplir con una misión.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-08-29 04:09:35 GMT)
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CORRECIÓN: En el comentario, léase "tanto internos COMO externos"

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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-08-29 04:12:21 GMT)
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Definition of BACK-OFFICE
: of or relating to the inner workings of a business or institution : internal <back–office operations>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/back office
Note from asker:
Muchas gracias, José, tomaré en cuenta tu explicación.
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6 hrs

ontological backyard

Backyard/backstore

As a title for a thesis I dont think that just relaying the meaning is really enough. It's obvious that a lot of thought has gone into the title so justice needs to be done with it.

When they refer to "trastienda ontológica" I imagine something "hidden" out back or something lacking in productive cluster ontology and maybe the aim of the thesis is to do a "house clean" of the backyard.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-08-29 08:22:42 GMT)
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I'm imagining a backyard or backstore of a small shop where the tins and cans are piled high, waiting for someone to remove the packaging, order and organise and then stack them on the shelves...this is what this evokes in me (which of course doesn't mean it is the original intention of the author)

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-08-29 09:19:01 GMT)
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I think you would be wise to contact the author..I believe "trastienda" is an analogy for something...maybe a lack of organised ontology is this field...that's why it invokes in my the idea of a higgledy piggledy backstore/ backyard.

But really only the author can know this for sure...worth contacting them if you can
Note from asker:
Thank you for your suggestion and thoughts, Chris. I'll try and see if the client can be more specific regarding the topic of the thesis, because only the title has to be translated.
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12 hrs

ontological background / backstage

En inglés usarías background, en artículos académicos se utilizan menos recursos que pueden tener sentido en Argentina, iría por una opción más despojada pero al mismo tiempo precisa. Sin embargo, si quisieras conservar todo el sentido original, creo que backstage es una buena opción, claramente se refiere a la ontología del proceso social detrás del fenómeno que estudia, lo más cercano a trastienda en el sentido que le damos en Argentina es backstage en tanto procesos que anteceden "entre bambalinas" al fenómeno observado.
Note from asker:
Muchas gracias por tu contribución, Marina
Peer comment(s):

neutral Marian Vieyra : I'm particularly 'neutral' about 'backstage'.
1 hr
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14 hrs

The fundamental philsophy/thinking/reasoning behind business clusters in Argentina.

Or even the 'fundamental metaphysics of business clusters in Argentina' . It seems the author wants the title, at least, to intrigue and draw the reader in.

Unfortunately, I fear that English-speaking academics, as Charles said, might scoff at the word 'ontological'.

I agree with Charles and prefer his take on how to translate this concept. I'm just offering another suggestion.

Have a look at the thesaurus reference to find a more "English" interpretation of the word 'ontology'
Note from asker:
Thank you very much for your explanation, Marian
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Reference comments

57 mins
Reference:

trastienda

I'm not sure which of this meanings is relevant here.
Note from asker:
I am not sure either, but do you think that in this particular case it could be "background"? Because "transtienda" may have a negative connotation but that cannot be applied here.
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