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Jun 20, 2014 12:44
9 yrs ago
5 viewers *
English term

Native/indigenous

English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. Migration/immigration
What would be a good term to describe the population of a European country to which people migrate, i.e., not immigrants?

The context is a research article on migration.

Ex. the native population/the indigenous population?
Personally, I think the term 'indigenous' evokes the idea of populations which have experienced colonisation, rather than Western societies which have experienced immigration...

But is 'native' any better?

All help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Responses
4 +5 host
4 +4 native-born
4 the local population
Change log

Jun 20, 2014 12:49: philgoddard changed "Language pair" from "French to English" to "English"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Charles Davis Jun 21, 2014:
@ Deidre As you will see, we appear to have had the same thoughts simultaneously. Not the first time this has happened to me here. I mean that I added my latest comments without having seen yours, and on pressing the button I found that you had said almost exactly the same thing in the previous minute!
Deirdre Brophy (X) (asker) Jun 21, 2014:
Credit to Gabrielle for the term 'host population', below, thanks!
Deirdre Brophy (X) (asker) Jun 21, 2014:
@Charles

Yes, good point, it is not legal. I suppose it depends on how the research question is defined (who it covers).

For the paper I am editing, I think 'host' population might be best, but 'native-born' is clearly suitable in other contexts, if the category of non-immigrants is defined as people born in the receiving country.
Sheila Wilson Jun 20, 2014:
Could you define the context even more precisely? I live in Fuerteventura in the Spanish-owned Canary Islands, in possibly one of the most cosmopolitan towns in the world. There are "Majoreros" here - you can tell them from their physical characteristics - but most Spanish-speakers came from the mainland or South America just one or two generations ago; and anyway the original Canarians were just about wiped out by successive pirate and government-backed explorer attacks! The rest of us have come from just about eveywhere. And of course the EU gives us a perfect right to settle in other EU countries.

I consider myself to be an "expatriate" (in the permanent sense of the word - which exists), or an immigrant on Spanish territory, or simply as a relocated EU citizen.
Charles Davis Jun 20, 2014:
If you want a term that carries implications of ethnicity or that excludes second-generation immigrants, for example, maybe "indigenous" is the answer after all. But it's a bit imprecise, in that sense. The trouble here, of course, is that this is such a politically loaded issue.

If you need something that simply means the population who are already there, regardless of where they were born, then perhaps "local population"?
Charles Davis Jun 20, 2014:
(By the way, just in passing and with no wish to offend anyone, I think the fact that Phil, as a non-Proz.com member, is prevented from answering this question shows that it is not really in the interest of askers to limit questions to Proz.com members, IMHO.)
Charles Davis Jun 20, 2014:
@ Deidre The source I've cited refers to immigrants in general, of any origin, and is sociological, not legal: it is not about UK law, and I see nothing to suggest that "native-born" is a legal term at all. It is simply used, here and elsewhere, to mean people born in the UK, non-immigrants.

As far as I can tell, "native" and "native-born" are, in principle, synonymous. I have seen nothing that suggests there is any difference in meaning. It's just a matter of convention; studies on immigration in the European Union refer more often to the "native-born" population than to the "native" population.

I started from the position of agreeing with Phil, and just checked to see what, in fact, academic studies on the phenomenon you are talking about tend to say.
Deirdre Brophy (X) (asker) Jun 20, 2014:
Charles, your contribution is interesting too, but I wonder if it is bound up with UK law on nationality or the specific group targeted by the report. For instance, some research includes children of migrants as belonging to a specific ethnic minority....
Deirdre Brophy (X) (asker) Jun 20, 2014:
Thanks!
philgoddard Jun 20, 2014:
Native is fine. It means people who were born there.

Responses

+5
5 hrs
Selected

host

In migration, one often speaks about the host country, host population, and so on. That makes no assumptions about where the inhabitants and their ancestors came from. HTH!


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Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-20 18:17:42 GMT)
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By the way, I agree with Gallagy & B.D. Finch - indigenous peoples are the "first nations" and definitely should not be used in this case.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : Good idea. Yes, have seen this.
33 mins
agree Vilina Svetoslavova
2 hrs
agree Charles Davis : Having given this more thought I actually think "host population" is the best option, and it certainly is in common use. Almost anything else carries ethnic connotations, like it or not.
13 hrs
agree Václav Pinkava : host
1 day 14 hrs
agree acetran
1 day 21 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, I think this suits the particular context of the paper best!"
7 hrs

the local population

Another way of putting it which sounds more natural to my ear.
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+4
43 mins

native-born

I agree with you about "indigenous". In principle, Phil is right about "native"; it simply means people who were born there, so it's OK in theory. But in practice, perhaps because in some countries (notably the US), "native" has other connotations, it's quite common to talk about the "native-born" population, although you might argue that it's strictly a tautology.

Here, for example, is a study on Immigration and the UK Labour Market from the Centre for Economic Performance at the LSE, and it uses "native-born" repeatedly, never "native" alone:

"Immigrants and native-born workers are not close substitutes, on average (existing migrants are closer substitutes for new migrants). This means that native-born workers are, on average, cushioned from rises in supply caused by rising immigration (Manacorda et al, 2007). [...]
Figure 2 shows the lack of correlation between changes in the native-born youth unemployment rate and changes in the share of immigrants living in an area between 2004 and 2010. Native-born youth unemployment rose less in areas that experienced a larger change in the share of immigrants."
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/pa014.pdf

And so on.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2014-06-21 07:56:42 GMT)
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I have given this question more thought, and I think I would be inclined to use "host population", though the choice will of course depend on what, in the context of a particular study, the term needs to mean. I am not going to withdraw this answer, which is valid, I believe, in its own terms, and I certainly don't think tautology or pleonasm is a relevant consideration. But "native-born" can itself carry ethnic connotations, which may not be wanted; it may be felt to carry echoes of the "natural born citizen" clause in the US constitution, and precedents such as Rudyard Kipling's jingoistic poem "The Native-Born" (1894):
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/native_born.ht...

It's not clear whether being born in the country in question is really the criterion, but as Gabrielle says, it simply means the population already established in the country, regardless of ethnicity or place of birth. "Native-born" is used like that too, actually:

"Since they are generally younger than the host population, immigrants' medical costs tend to be lower than those of the native-born."
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21579482...

So take your pick. But I like "host population".
Peer comment(s):
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : In this case that is the best term. Indigenous means more than that: people who have lived there for generations. A second-generation immigrant, for example, is native-born but not indigenous.
22 mins
That's a very interesting point which had escaped me. Thanks very much, Tina :)
agree B D Finch : I believe that indigenous means originating in a place: their arrival is lost in the mists of time. So just about nobody is indigenous to Britain! As native means born there, native-born is, as you note, a tautology, but probably a necessary one here.
1 hr
Thanks, Barbara!
agree Yvonne Gallagher : native-born. "indigenous" is almost akin to "aboriginal" or "original" people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples
3 hrs
Thanks, Gallagy :)
agree Natalia Volkova
6 hrs
Thanks, Natalia :)
neutral Václav Pinkava : native-born is a pleonasm. Native or locally-born. On reflection, native-born suggests a second generation native, born of a native, and in e.g. citizenship entitlement, this plays a role. Certainly preferable to the "natural-born" US term. Cesarian ok?
16 hrs
Hello Václav. Yes, of course it is; I said so. But it is a standard term in the field. // As I said, "native-born" is very widely used in this field and means anyone born in the country in question. But as I have also said, I actually prefer "host" here.
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