Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi
English translation:
never marry a foreigner, my friend
Added to glossary by
Barbara Cochran, MFA
Feb 20, 2014 17:22
10 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Italian term
United States
Laudable Lady Linguist
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 3 more.
moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi
Italian to English
Art/Literary
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Autobiography
Contessto:
In quei giorni avevo incontrato il marito di Fanny Billings, marchese Nino Patrizi, il quale nell'esprimermi il suo dolore per la infelice esibizione di Fiske e della sua ispiratrice politica, dimostrò tutta la virtù della sua stirpe e del suo animo, con frasi piene di nobilità, senza traccia di rancore. "A me lo dici," gli rispondevo, alludendo alla mia situazione familiare che anch'egli ben conosceva. "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi," mi disse nel salutarmi, con un sorriso triste, allontanandosi per la via Frattina.
The protagonist is separated from his wife and children. He had dual citizenship.
Molte Grazie,
Barbara
In quei giorni avevo incontrato il marito di Fanny Billings, marchese Nino Patrizi, il quale nell'esprimermi il suo dolore per la infelice esibizione di Fiske e della sua ispiratrice politica, dimostrò tutta la virtù della sua stirpe e del suo animo, con frasi piene di nobilità, senza traccia di rancore. "A me lo dici," gli rispondevo, alludendo alla mia situazione familiare che anch'egli ben conosceva. "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi," mi disse nel salutarmi, con un sorriso triste, allontanandosi per la via Frattina.
The protagonist is separated from his wife and children. He had dual citizenship.
Molte Grazie,
Barbara
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Mar 6, 2014 13:10: James (Jim) Davis Created KOG entry
Mar 25, 2014 16:46: Barbara Cochran, MFA changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/572187">James (Jim) Davis's</a> old entry - "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi"" to ""never marry a foreigner my friend""
Proposed translations
+4
12 hrs
James (Jim) Davis
Seychelles
Seychelles
Native in English
Seychelles
25 years experience constantly improving
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
303
Selected
never marry a foreigner my friend
I first heard this phrase nearly thirty years ago on my return from England to Italy when I mentioned that I had met a girl on my visit. I have never come across any well known English proverb which does it justice as a translation. After all the paesi is more villages than countries. So it is best to duck it rather than make a half-baked attempt.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
dandamesh
: nice choice, it refers to (small) villages and reflects Italian diversity.
27 mins
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| agree |
Shera Lyn Parpia
2 hrs
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| agree |
texjax DDS PhD
: This is the only option that seems to fit. Bravo Jim :)
10 hrs
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Thank you Bruna. Last time round 5 years ago I poste "you can't beat your own kith and kin", but it wouldn't work here at all.
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| agree |
Michele Fauble
1 day 1 hr
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
31 mins
Daniela Zambrini
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
&
English
Italy
Handling words with care since 1998
Native in: English , Italian
Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
34
Better wed over the mixen than over the moor
Better wed over the mixen than over the moor = It is better to marry a neighbour than a stranger
not the exact translation for your proverb but probably the nearest option
http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199539...
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Note added at 33 mins (2014-02-20 17:56:37 GMT)
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http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1750804&lang...
not the exact translation for your proverb but probably the nearest option
http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199539...
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Note added at 33 mins (2014-02-20 17:56:37 GMT)
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http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1750804&lang...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Janice Giffin
: I like this, but feel that the unusual words "mixen" or "midden" could create confusion, especially since these words' first meaning is dunghill; not immediately recognizable as "local"
1 hr
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:-) hehe... yes, but usually proverbs and sayings in English use archaic words.. I actually don't know if it's a well-known, and therefore easily recognised, proverb in English
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| neutral |
James (Jim) Davis
: Problem is that I know the Italian proverb well, but to confess my ignorance had never heard of this English proverb before now.
12 hrs
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1 hr
better the devil you know
This seems to fit the bill!
This is the shortened form of the full idiom, 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't', and means that it is often better to deal with someone or something you are familiar with and know, even if they are not ideal, than take a risk with an unknown person or thing.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/better the devi...
This is the shortened form of the full idiom, 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't', and means that it is often better to deal with someone or something you are familiar with and know, even if they are not ideal, than take a risk with an unknown person or thing.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/better the devi...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Lara Barnett
: I think the meaning is correct, I just think this is a bit strong to use regarding a wife/marriage situation.// Yes, but a wife is still a wife.
2 hrs
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maybe, I thought it might be suitable seeing as their marriage didn't work out in the end// the saying is just saying best stick to what you know (not foreigners in this case) irrespective of whether married or not, that doesn't really come into it:-)
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| neutral |
James (Jim) Davis
: But Ivana wives are angels not devils :-)
11 hrs
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ha ha ...well that depends entirely on the wife :-) and in this case they're separated so it looks like it didn't go too well ...
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+1
2 hrs
Janice Giffin
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Specializes in field
Italy
Accuracy, reliability and timeliness
Native in: English
Works in: Italian to English, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
78
better to marry a neighbor than a stranger
This turns out to be a known South American proverb. Also known in Christian ( "Drink from your own cistern")and Muslim Communities. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that it is a known proverb, not only in Italy.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lara Barnett
: This seems accurate in meaning and could be used to describe a wife. Whereas some of the others do not sound colloquial or usable to describe a wife.
1 hr
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Thank you, Lara.
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| neutral |
James (Jim) Davis
: The problem is that I've never heard anybody say this as a proverb. // Maybe but the target culture is what counts.
10 hrs
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If you look at my references, it is a commonly recognized saying in other cultures.
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1 day 3 hrs
you really gotta stick with your own kind
If you like a more neutral phrase, I heard this expression several times.
I can immagine that for Americans this idiom must be really hilarious.
A country destination of so many migrants throughout time.
I can immagine that for Americans this idiom must be really hilarious.
A country destination of so many migrants throughout time.
+1
14 hrs
Michael Korovkin
Italy
Italy
Native in English
Works in field
Italy
Native in: English , Russian
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, Italian to Russian, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
125
Drink water from your own cistern
that's the Bible on marriage
Pr.5:15-19:
15 Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well.
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Note added at 19 hrs (2014-02-21 13:01:19 GMT)
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An alternative "stick to your own kind"
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Note added at 1 day22 hrs (2014-02-22 15:26:15 GMT)
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With all due respect to the discussants, fery few areas excepted, Italy doesn't have "villages": it has small towns (often hilltowns, often fortified).
The proverb is old ans has been widely used in both urban and rural Italian, so it's no longer plausible to trace it to "small agricultural villages". What it means is simply "in important choices stick to your own kind"
Pr.5:15-19:
15 Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2014-02-21 13:01:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
An alternative "stick to your own kind"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day22 hrs (2014-02-22 15:26:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
With all due respect to the discussants, fery few areas excepted, Italy doesn't have "villages": it has small towns (often hilltowns, often fortified).
The proverb is old ans has been widely used in both urban and rural Italian, so it's no longer plausible to trace it to "small agricultural villages". What it means is simply "in important choices stick to your own kind"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Janice Giffin
: I almost chose this as an answer, but it is really about sexual fidelity in marriage. Not quite the same spirit as the original proverb.
3 hrs
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oh...
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| agree |
dandamesh
: I don't know the meaning of the Bible but if it's purity/virginity it's ok
12 hrs
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thanks!
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Reference comments
27 mins
Daniela Zambrini
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
&
English
Italy
Handling words with care since 1998
Native in: English , Italian
Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
34
Reference:
proverb
http://www.proverbi-italiani.com/cerca-60-M.html
Proverbio che viene usato per evidenziare l'opportunità di celebrare i matrimoni fra persone degli stessi luoghi per una migliore comprensione e unione, quantunque ciò spesso non risponda a verità.
Proverbio che viene usato per evidenziare l'opportunità di celebrare i matrimoni fra persone degli stessi luoghi per una migliore comprensione e unione, quantunque ciò spesso non risponda a verità.
34 mins
cynthiatesser
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
Works in field
Italy
Knowledge makes the difference
Native in: Italian (Variant: Standard-Italy)
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Italian
Related KudoZ points
:
29
Reference:
Kudoz 2008
...
1 day 3 hrs
Reference:
L'origine e il significato del proverbio (del genere "prudenziale", "conservatore") sono limpidi, letteralmente: "Una moglie originaria del tuo paese ti riserverà meno sorprese così come acquistare buoi della razza locale, dalle caratteristiche ben note";
inteso che un buon tiro di buoi, all'epoca della nascita del proverbio, era una spesa tra le maggiori, poteva esser determinante per la propria economia e quindi la propria sorte, e sarebbe durato a lungo.
it's basically a matter of money and virginity
Ovviamente c'è della malizia nel proverbio, certamente fin dall'origine, là dove il "cercar moglie" viene equiparato ad una operazione importante e determinante per l'edificazione del proprio destino, ma anche introducendo il tono piuttosto ...materialista (la relazione con un altro essere umano restando non paragonabile ad altra!): è sottinteso "non lasciarti guidare dal solo entusiasmo amoroso", "cerca garanzie oltre all'apparenza (ed una sarebbe la nostranità)".
inteso che un buon tiro di buoi, all'epoca della nascita del proverbio, era una spesa tra le maggiori, poteva esser determinante per la propria economia e quindi la propria sorte, e sarebbe durato a lungo.
it's basically a matter of money and virginity
Ovviamente c'è della malizia nel proverbio, certamente fin dall'origine, là dove il "cercar moglie" viene equiparato ad una operazione importante e determinante per l'edificazione del proprio destino, ma anche introducendo il tono piuttosto ...materialista (la relazione con un altro essere umano restando non paragonabile ad altra!): è sottinteso "non lasciarti guidare dal solo entusiasmo amoroso", "cerca garanzie oltre all'apparenza (ed una sarebbe la nostranità)".
Example sentence:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=85760&langid=14
Discussion
I'not sure 100% but think the reference I posted is basically correct. The saying is form the South of Italy where two things are important for a man, a wife of proven virginity and a solid business situation, they are both considered an asset, still now, I'm afraid...
it's not really fidelity for wives, it's more "illibatezza".
Anyway, fidelity could be referred to both, since there is another saying
"e' inutile chiudere la stalla quando sono scappati i buoi"