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RM PRETEMPORADA
totalidad del recibo de arriendo
Jun 27, 2013 16:40
10 yrs ago
10 viewers *
Spanish term

¿derecho materia(l) o derecho (en) materia (de)?

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) POA
I'm sure some thing(s) is/are missing from this sentence in a Power of Attorney, but I can only focus on one thing at a time and I'm getting cross-eyed looking at all of them:

Representar a LA PODERDANTE ante todo tipo de Centros de Conciliación Extrajudicial teniendo la facultad expresa de conciliar en materia civil y/o laboral y de disponer del **derecho materia** de conciliación ya sea por obligación de dar suma de dinero y/o obligaciones de hacer y/o obligaciones de no hacer, asimismo de ser invitado o de invitar a los procesos y/o audiencias de conciliación extrajudicial a realizarse en cualquier centro de conciliación, fijando las pretensiones determinadas y/o determinables sea en materia civil y/o laboral y de fijar argumentos de hecho, así como rechazando o planteando reconvenciones fijando y describiendo la controversia planteada en la audiencias donde actúe como **invitado la sociedad**.

Of the two parts isolated by asterisks, I'm pretty sure the latter one should be something like "invitado de la sociedad". However, considering that the POA holder is a legal representative, I don't really see in what sense he would only be an "invitado".

More important in my view is the reading of "derecho materia", which is ambiguous enough to throw me off.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 derecho material - substantive conciliation rights
4 *Derecho en materia de* y *titular de la AOP*

Discussion

jacana54 (X) Jun 28, 2013:
:-D
Parrot (asker) Jun 28, 2013:
¡Uy! Ya decía yo que se me cruzaban los ojos... no es que se me cruzasen, necesitaba tres.
jacana54 (X) Jun 28, 2013:
No creo que sea un typo "derecho materia de conciliación": el derecho sobre el que se dispone en la conciliación; el derecho en cuestión
Según la acepción 8 del DRAE: punto o negocio de que se trata.
Vendría a ser el asunto sobre el que versa la conciliación.
Parrot (asker) Jun 27, 2013:
@veronicaes, thanks! duly noted.
Parrot (asker) Jun 27, 2013:
@Eneida, yes I needed the reading. I can hack the rest, but I have to be sure what I say.
Parrot (asker) Jun 27, 2013:
You got source spot on, Charles It's a Peruvian text and talks about Articles 74 and 75 of their civil procedure. Very helpful.
Charles Davis Jun 27, 2013:
disponer del derecho en materia de conciliación doesn't seem to me to make much sense. What would "disponer del derecho" mean here, without any indication of "derecho de qué"?
Charles Davis Jun 27, 2013:
derecho material I don't know where your document is from, but the following, which is about Peru, suggests to me that "derecho material" may well be the right reading:

"Características de la conciliación:
Algunas de las principales características de la conciliación son las siguientes:
1.- Es personal; Las partes deben participar personalmente en la conciliación; los casos de Apoderados son excepcionales y deberán contar con un poder que consigne literalmente la facultad de conciliar extrajudicialmente y de disponer del derecho material de conciliación."
http://www.acpuju.com/2011/07/articulo-la-conciliacion-en-la...

In other words, a POA has to grant the "derecho material de conciliación" explicitly, so it would make sense for this provision to appear in yours.
Billh Jun 27, 2013:
Agree with Veronica the point being that you don't compel parties to appear at a conciliation, it is by invitation and if they are dispuestos a conciliar, asi sea....
veronicaes Jun 27, 2013:
**invitado la sociedad** Esta parte para mi está correcta, aunque escrita de forma confusa, pero sería como decir "...en las audiencias donde la sociedad actúe como invitadA" = in all hearings where the [PRINCIPAL] is invited, o algo asi.
Parrot (asker) Jun 27, 2013:
derecho material does mean something here, phil: http://facultad.zzl.org/areas/procesal/civil/derechomaterial... . Some translate it as substantive law. That's why I'm being careful: did the writer mean substantive law in the matter of labor and civil cases?
Billh Jun 27, 2013:
Phil Please abstain from bald unsubstantiated assertions. You say :
"Derecho material" doesn't mean anything."

On the contrary,
"Derecho material y procesal - Derecho Procesal Civil. Facultad de ...
facultad.zzl.org/areas/.../derechomaterialyprocesal.htm...‎Translate this page
Derecho material y procesal: Distinción entre ambos conceptos. El primero es sustantivo, que otorga derechos y obligaciones, mientras el segundo es un ..."

http://facultad.zzl.org/areas/procesal/civil/derechomaterial...

and it's NOT reconciliation, it's CONCILIATION
philgoddard Jun 27, 2013:
It says "en materia de" earlier in the sentence, so I believe my interpretation is much more likely. A "substantive right of reconciliation" doesn't mean anything very much, whereas something like "the right to engage in reconciliation proceedings" does.
Billh Jun 27, 2013:
It's probably a typo for material, here meaning substantive.
philgoddard Jun 27, 2013:
Almost certainly "en materia de". "Derecho material" doesn't mean anything. And I agree that it should be "invitado de", though the meaning of "invitado" should be a separate question.

Proposed translations

+1
13 hrs
Selected

derecho material - substantive conciliation rights

Thanks to Charles who found the Peruvian source, this confirms my first reaction. Substantive here would mean the right to appear and act in conciliation processes whereas a procedural right would be simply to institute the process, I think.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2013-06-28 05:42:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Apart from anything else, a typo by omitting the 'l' is understandable. A typo of omitting 'en' and 'de' would be far less credible.....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2013-06-28 06:19:20 GMT)
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donde actúe como **invitado la sociedad**

must mean where the company appears as invited party

It is simply a word order issue.

Invite is the correct term by the way. As in

[DOC]
CONCILIATION.doc
cis01.central.ucv.ro/iba/files/ibl/rezumate_IBL/CONCILIATION.doc‎
The party initiating conciliation sends to the other party a written invitation to conciliate, briefly identifying the subject of dispute. If a party that invited another ...

Article 4. Commencement of conciliation proceedings^c
www.jus.uio.no/lm/en/html/un.conciliation.international...l...‎
(2) If a party that invited another party to conciliate does not receive an acceptance of the invitation within thirty days from the day on which the invitation was sent ...

The conciliation is a procedural institution governed by art. 720 ...
www.taxlawyers.co.il/en/articles.asp?ArticleID=891‎
The plaintiff has to send to the defendant an invitation to conciliation in which to explain all his claims. To this invitation, the plaintiff must attach all the documents ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Although I always take Lucía's opinion seriously, and I approve of making sense of the text as it stands where possible, I don't find her reading convincing this time. I really think this is a typo and it should read "material".
11 hrs
I agree but mainly on the strength of you reference. I thought you would have put an answer in.....
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, everybody. My final version was really collaborative work!"
18 mins

*Derecho en materia de* y *titular de la AOP*

Yo diría:

Representar a LA PODERDANTE ante todo tipo de Centros de Conciliación Extrajudicial teniendo la facultad expresa de conciliar en materia civil y/o laboral y de disponer del derecho en materia de conciliación, ya sea por obligación de entregar una suma de dinero y/o estar obligado o no/ tener la obligación o no de ser invitado o de invitar a que los procesos y/o audiencias de conciliación extrajudicial se realicen en cualquier centro de conciliación, fijando las pretensiones determinadas y/o determinables ya sea en materia civil y/o laboral y de fijar argumentos de hecho, así como de rechazar o plantear las reconvenciones fijando y describiendo la controversia planteada en las audiencias donde actúe como titular de la AOP.

Me resulta un poco difícil ayudarte con la redacción porque no incluyes la versión en inglés.

Si añades el texto original reviso mi sugerencia.

Espero que te sirva,

Eneida

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Note added at 34 mins (2013-06-27 17:15:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you need to translate this text into English as our peer Billh has indicated, I hope that my version in Spanish helps you understanding the original text a bit better, best of luck!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Billh : This is about translation into English.....
11 mins
Is the Spanish the original text???
Something went wrong...
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