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AS/SH / N° de Dossier:

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

master vs. maîtrise

English translation:

master vs one-year postgraduate degree

Added to glossary by Sheila Wilson
Mar 14, 2012 14:52
12 yrs ago
127 viewers *
French term

master vs. maîtrise

French to English Other Education / Pedagogy diplomas
I've never seen both degrees coincide in one person's qualifications and hence have had no problem with this so far.

However, my client holds a Master DROIT from the Sorbonne and a Maîtrise DROIT PUBLIC from the University of Versailles. How would you draw a distinction if you had to translate both diplomas, or would it even be necessary?

TIA for any suggestions.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 master vs one-year postgraduate degree
5 +2 keep the original
4 +2 Masters (and possibly distinguish by number of years or credits)
4 (both) Masters
References
"Master" is a more advanced credential than "Maîtrise"
Change log

Mar 19, 2012 11:34: Sheila Wilson Created KOG entry

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 14, 2012:
@ Isabelle Agree! Spot on for the finer details.
After law and languages back in the 1980's, I'm doing a research masters in biology and neuroscience. As you say, a number of people kind of convert the unconvertible, describing an old maîtrise as a master. Whislt the fine tuning you say is right, it is also worth pointing out that the Master 1 and Master 2 can have different titles. For UK readers, there are also one and two-year masters courses. Some of the 2 year courses full-time still give the equivalent of an M1. So many differences, it really is worth considering retaining the original definitions.

My research M1 I am doing over two years. It did not start out that way but I was ill so plans changed. The M1 is in Biologie, Santé et Neurosciences. The M2 will be in Neurosciences Cognitives. Both are from the Science Faculty wut with the collaboration of the Psychology Faculty and the Faculty of Medicine.

Yes, France does separate things out a little but for the French, it does not lack precision, rather the opposite. Noone I know studying a masters here or elsewhere is France will describe their masters without saying whether it's an M1 or M2.
Isabelle Barth-O'Neill Mar 14, 2012:
The European decision to "unify" the calling of degrees was at the beginning of this century to allow people to go and work abroad more easily.
also to go and sturdy abroad more easily as each degree corresponds to a specific number of credits.
Isabelle Barth-O'Neill Mar 14, 2012:
The term Master is being used all over Europe. ONLY France has two Masters after the Master 1
Sometimes people call them as well Master 2 - but it is lacking precision
Isabelle Barth-O'Neill Mar 14, 2012:
@ Parrot Hello,
Like your client I have both : une maitrise d'anglais et un Master en Langues.
One was before the European reform and the other one after. So Check the date.
In fact, they are both Master and Maitrise are both the same. It is only after when people talk about Master Recherche (former DEA) and Master Professionnel (former DESS) that there is a difference. In fact, your client should be able to tell you which Master he/she has. Sometimes, people are calling the former Maitrise : Master 1.
Both Maitrise and Master are 4 years of studies after the baccalaureat.
Master Recherche and Master Professionnel are 5 years. After a Master Recherche you can prepare a doctorate if you wish
Hope I am clear and not too long !!!!!!
cc in nyc Mar 14, 2012:
"postgraduate" in the US The term "postgraduate" in the US is generally used to refer to studies after college graduation. That would include (among others) courses for masters programs, doctoral programs, and even post-doctoral programs. So it's quite general, as these terms go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgraduate_education
Parrot (asker) Mar 14, 2012:
I sometimes wonder if the people who stay put have our problems. I got myself 2 foreign "masters" in translation and the year after they doubled the credit requirements - for awhile they were talking about "master" and "magister" over here, but it seems to have settled at "master" (2 years, 60 ECTS).
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 14, 2012:
Postgrad Postgrad in the UK is beyond Bachelor's degree level.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 14, 2012:
@ Parrot That's an easy one to answer! I'm doing and M1 right now and going on to an M2 next year. Si ce n'est pas de l'actualité, ça...?! ;-)
Parrot (asker) Mar 14, 2012:
@Sheila Postgraduate in the US is often used to denote post-MA (graduate school) studies.
Parrot (asker) Mar 14, 2012:
@Nikki Indeed the M1/M2 terminology appears in the PDF document titles. But how kosher is that now? ("developmental" question).
Sheila Wilson Mar 14, 2012:
@Veratek - that's interesting What's the difference in meaning of "postgraduate"? I had no idea about that.
veratek Mar 14, 2012:
@Sheila's feedback comment about my suggestion One way to distinguish them, as I suggested, is to qualify the Masters. In the US, a one-year Masters is not the same as a two-year Masters. One is not equal to two. In the US, the same person could do two Masters, just like in this case, and they could be different lengths or involve a different number of credits, and they would still have obtained two Masters degrees. Not all Masters are alike in the US, and have never been so.

I don't know much about the UK system, my references are all US.

and "postgraduate" in the US does not mean the same as in the UK.

Another thing that could be confusing with your suggestion, depending on the target audience.
Dominique Stiver Mar 14, 2012:
In this case, you are right and we should keep the word Maîtrise which is obviously 4 years (I usually mention the number of years in brackets) to avoid any misinterpretation
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 14, 2012:
Equivalence, beware, do not translate! So, further to my blurb above, that's all very well but the main point is, don't translate the terms. Maîtrise used to be used in France but is now replaced by Master. Be careful of the M1 and M2 distinction, not to mention the old terms of DESS etc.

Unless you are actually an office of "équivalence", the rule would be to retain the French terminology, maîtrise or master as in the original.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 14, 2012:
Time is of the essence In the past, in the UK, a Master's degree was generally, although not always, a one year course after a bachelor's degree.

In France, in the past, a maîtrise was one year (generally) after a licence.

Currently, there are master 1 and Master 2, the first (M1) being one year after the licence, the second, the M2 being two years after a licence, thus bac + 4 and bac +5 respectively.

In some instances you can get onto an M2 without having done an M1 depending on the content of your licence and epxerience. However,as a rule, in France, if you wish to do a doctorat, you must have an M2.

In the UK, it is possible to skip the masters altogether if you want to do a PhD after your bachelor degree, as long as both are in very much the same domain. You may take three years for your PhD, or four if your bachlor's was in another field or previous course content was not sufficiently in line with the field of study chosen for the PhD.

Confused? You might well be. Terms change, requirements change, not only from country to country but also over time.
Nigel Wheatley Mar 14, 2012:
@Parrot It is indeed a Bologna thing. Mastères have been offered since at least 2000 (when I taught on one), and seem to be becoming the norm, but the maîtrise was retained because some civil service concours require a Bac+4 (notably the agrégation).
Dominique Stiver Mar 14, 2012:
I would use the term Master but mention 30/60ECTS which is the reference for anyone in order not get lost with "titles" which are often mistranslated
Parrot (asker) Mar 14, 2012:
@Nigel I seem to have hit upon a Bologna adjustment case (2005 thereabouts). Bac was a regular licence, it's the maîtrise and master course content that changes (30 to 60 ECTS).
Nigel Wheatley Mar 14, 2012:
difference A "master", also spelled "mastère", is a Bac+5, whereas a maîtrise is a Bac+4. However, I would translate both by "masters degree", as masters degrees in English-speaking universities are fairly diverse in length.
Parrot (asker) Mar 14, 2012:
@Lara I'm using the same terms used by the Sorbonne and the U. Versailles. The Sorbonne course had 60 ECTS and U. Versailles had 30.

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

master vs one-year postgraduate degree

There's no way these two are equal. As others have said, they are Bac+5 and Bac+4 respectively. There is no real equivalent to a maîtrise. However there is agreement on the level of bachelor degree = French licence, so a one-year post-graduate degree makes some sense to Anglo-Saxon readers even if they've never heard of a maîtrise.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-03-14 16:38:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Of course, on the diploma itself, there's no way "one-year postgraduate degree" should replace the French term. It should be in parentheses after the French term to give some sort of explanation to the reader.

For a CV, which is a marketing document, I'd normally simply give the English. After all, a CV is followed by an interview - plenty of opportunity to explain exactly what this maîtrise is all about.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2012-03-19 11:32:57 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

NOTE: I have added this answer to the KudoZ glossary. However, there has been a lot of valid debate here and things will no doubt change over time. There is no simple answer to this problem and care must be taken to find the best translation to be used for a particular document.
Peer comment(s):
agree Dominique Stiver : Le DESS a-t-il donc disparu (maîtrise + 1) au profit du Master
16 mins
Thanks. I don't know if they still award the DESS or not, but it is certainly equivalent to an M2 (i.e. master)
agree Clarissa Hull
5 hrs
Thanks
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In the end I used a variant. Thanks to everybody."
+2
5 mins

Masters (and possibly distinguish by number of years or credits)

You can either leave the original French title and add the translation in parentheses (and translate both as Masters)

or you can additionally qualify the Masters translation by number of years (if they are different or number of credits)

That's my suggestion.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : Yes, they're both the same.
3 mins
Thanks.
neutral Sheila Wilson : No, they are not the same. If you'd studied for one year, passed the exam, then studied for a second year, I don't think you'd see them as the same at all // But here you need to distinguish between someone who has Bac+5 and someone who only has Bac+4
1 hr
In the United States, there are one-year Masters programs, two-year and three-year Masters. They are all called Masters..
agree Nigel Wheatley : agree, because this is the solution I'd use: that's not to say that the other options proposed are not also valid
3 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
6 mins

(both) Masters

One is the French title, one is the English title.

I would generally use the English for an English readership.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sheila Wilson : There's a whole year of study between them, which is why French people quite often have both
58 mins
neutral Dominique Stiver : Il me semble effectivement qu'il faille une anné de plus pour le master
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

keep the original

master for master
maitrise for maîtrise
;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2012-03-14 18:31:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Unless you are qualified to do determine degree equivalencies, that is.

Here's one service that is so qualified:
http://www.globelanguage.com/evaluation.html
– recommended by Columbia University: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/admissions/faq.h...

I'm sure there are others.
Peer comment(s):
agree cchat : Excellent reference links
15 hrs
Thank you.
agree Yolanda Broad : http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/education_pedago...
1 day 9 hrs
Thank you for adding the link to the thread that contains your excellent Reference entry
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

22 mins
Reference:

"Master" is a more advanced credential than "Maîtrise"

"En France, la maîtrise est un diplôme d'enseignement supérieur, délivré après quatre ans d'études universitaires. Elle suit la licence et précède le diplôme de master (à finalité recherche ou professionnelle). La maîtrise est appelée à disparaître, ou tout au moins à voir son importance réduite en raison de la réforme LMD (licence-master-doctorat), ou « 3-5-8 » : pour faciliter les échanges inter-européens, les diplômes principaux sont désormais délivrés après la 3e (licence), la 5e (master) et au moins la 8e année (doctorat) d'étude." http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise#France

"En France, la Maîtrise est un diplôme national et un grade universitaire de second cycle de l’enseignement supérieur, validant la quatrième année d'études après le baccalauréat, et une année d'études supplémentaire après la Licence. Depuis la réforme Licence-Master-Doctorat, la Maîtrise correspond à la première des deux années du diplôme de Master." http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maîtrise_(France)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Simon Mac
57 mins
Thanks.
agree Sheila Wilson
1 hr
Thanks, Sheila.
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Oui et non, dans la mesure ou Master seul est général car il y a Master 1 (=maîtrise) et Master 2 (ex- DESS etc). Je fais actuellement un master 1 et prévois un passage en M2. Première référence n'est plus d'actualité, car le passage en LMD est effectif.
4 hrs
Je vous crois sur parole; merci pour le renseignement.
Something went wrong...
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