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Apr 17, 2011 21:40
13 yrs ago
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French term

avoirs et engagements

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general)
This comes from a contract on access to an online banking service. The services allows:

- visualisation des avoirs et des engagements sur le compte,
- accès à certain documents
-accès à une messagerie

At first I thought of credits and debits but I think it may be wider than this ie credit granted, overdrafts, loan agreements etc.

thanks
Proposed translations (English)
2 account balance and (withdrawals and debits(?))
4 +2 assets and liabilities
3 bank and credit accounts (at this particular bank)
2 credits and debits
Change log

Apr 17, 2011 23:14: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial"

Discussion

joehlindsay Apr 18, 2011:
cont'd In decades of working in investment banks, stock brokerages, private equity, etc., I don't ever remember the term 'liabilities' appearing on an account statement. The concept just does not apply to a bank statement. I haven't seen "assets" used either, but the concept is valid for holdings in a bank. I think banks just usually report in terms of balances, deposits and withdrawals (debits).

Although the misbegotten US Gramm,Leach, Billey act ended the separation of commercial and investment banking in the US imposed by the Glass Steagall Act in the 1930s and contributed much to the recent financial crisis, I don't think it's terribly relevant to French banks which are not completely the same as US banks. (There never was a Glass, Steagall Act in France or the mandatory separation of retail and investment banking) That's why I don't think you can use a dictionary type translation here, but need to find out what these terms include. I would not hesitate to query the client if that information is not available in the context.
joehlindsay Apr 18, 2011:
It is indeed tricky. I think some case can be made for the use of 'assets'. But I really think you need to know the items under these headings to get an accurate translation.

Banks are different. Is this the kind of bank that only has checking accounts, savings and CDs, essentially a retail bank? Or is it a full service bank where you can have money market accounts, equity (stocks), bonds, options contracts, and other financial instruments, etc. in your account?

I have accounts at 2 banks. TDAmeritrade, which is basically a capital markets broker that offers retail banking services like checks, debit cards, etc., but also equity holdings, ETFS, mutual funds, bonds, options, instant loans... the whole gamut of financial products.

I also have an account at JPMorganChase, which is mostly a traditional retail account.

The items on the online account websites of these banks are different.The Chase account simply has balances and account activity, whereas the TD Ameritrade account has pie charts with holdings, lists of equities, bonds, other investments, margin balance, short and long positions, and on and on.

(cont'd)
rkillings Apr 18, 2011:
This one is tricky The reason for the use of the words 'avoirs' and 'engagements' here, as opposed to 'actifs' and 'passifs', is that they represent the account holder's point of view. A person's avoirs bancaires are passifs bancaires of the bank, and vice versa for engagements. If you go with "assets and liabilities" in English, you reverse the bank's point of view and need to make this scrupulously clear by adding words, e.g., assets held at the bank, liaibilities owed to the bank.
The "credits and debits" language is always from the bank's point of view, but a credit or debit is an increment or decrement, not a balance.
One puzzle to me is the singular definite ('sur le compte'). Any one account will have only one balance, credit or debit, at a given point in time. Perhaps you can fudge this by saying "credit and debit balances on account" (at the bank). As you say, it seems to cover what the bank owes you for your deposits as well as what you owe the bank for overdrafts, loans, fees, etc.

Proposed translations

20 hrs
Selected

account balance and (withdrawals and debits(?))

I think you may need to abandoned a word for word translation. I'm pretty sure that "avoirs" is usually "account balance" but I'm not confident about engagement without seeing what they are composed of.

A few terms to help think through:

-avoirs financiers=financial assets

-engagements financiers is often translated as "financial commitments"

-engagement is often 'encumbrances'

Since this is a bank statement and not a balance sheet, I don't think "assets and liabilities" works here. Have you ever seen that on your English bank statement? I haven't.

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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-04-18 19:06:29 GMT)
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I think this is kind of important to get right. Maybe you should find out exactly what items are included in the 'avoirs' and 'engagements'. Do they just include cash deposits and cash, or also financial instruments like equities, bonds and CDs?

Under 'engagements', do they just have withdrawals and debits, or do they include regular automatic bill and mortgage payments, transfers to savings instruments, etc.?
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2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks for all your help "
+2
17 mins

assets and liabilities

Don't know what else I would say, but others may have better ideas.
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans
14 mins
Thank you!
agree Liliane Hatem
6 hrs
Thank you!
neutral rkillings : But whose? The avoirs are amounts owed -- by the bank to the account holder!
9 hrs
Assets and liabilities in the account are the account holder's assets and liabilities.
neutral Melissa McMahon : this sounds odd to me in the context of a personal banking account rather than an entity... (but may be technically correct...)/My bank doesn't use those terms to talk to me about my online banking service, is all
9 hrs
Context is "online banking service"; what's the problem?
neutral joehlindsay : re: "What's the problem?" I think the problem is that this language is not used on bank statements. It is used on balance sheets and in other accounting.
19 hrs
Banking has changed a lot in the USA since the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999,
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11 hrs

credits and debits

Given it's about online banking, could it be this?
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1 day 2 hrs

bank and credit accounts (at this particular bank)

Hello,


avoirs bancaires = bank accounts (all varieties)

engagements bancaires = credit accounts (loans, etc)


Les avoirs bancaires comprennent les comptes à vue, les livrets d'épargne, les carnets de dépôt, mais aussi les portefeuilles-titres, ou les valeurs qui ...
www.notaire.be/divorce.../le.../partage-des-avoirs-bancaire...


This free service allows U.S.-based clients to access their account information 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Clients can view account holdings, trade confirmations, and monthly and year-end account statements. They can also obtain Merrill Lynch Research reports, market data and news stories. Plus, other site features allow clients to pay their bills electronically, see their total net worth and create security trackers -- all with advice and guidance of a Financial Advisor to help support their financial goals.


http://www.ml.com/index.asp?id=7695_14227_14228


I hope this helps.
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