Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
Etat, impôts sur les bénéfices
English translation:
income tax payable; income taxes payable
Added to glossary by
TechLawDC
Feb 10, 2011 18:00
13 yrs ago
57 viewers *
French term
Etat, impôts sur les bénéfices
French to English
Bus/Financial
Finance (general)
tax
This is part of a balance sheet at first i thought it was turnover tax but then the next phrase is Etat, taxes sur les chiffres d'affaires which also seems to be turnover tax.
whats the difference?
whats the difference?
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Feb 10, 2011 18:23: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Term asked" from "Etat, impots sur les benefices" to "Etat, impôts sur les bénéfices" , "Field" from "Other" to "Bus/Financial"
Feb 11, 2011 01:41: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Economics" to "Finance (general)"
Feb 24, 2011 04:18: TechLawDC Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
2 hrs
Selected
income tax payable
(A balance sheet item must be an asset or a liability or a net worth item. I have assumed that the impôts are taxes which have accrued and are payable in the current year. This is not obvious, as various other tax items may appear on a balance sheet!)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-10 20:30:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternatively: "income taxes payable".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-10 20:30:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternatively: "income taxes payable".
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: But surely that would be 'impôt sur le revenu'?
4 mins
|
| agree |
joehlindsay
1 hr
|
| agree |
rkillings
: It's income tax. Specifically, tax on corporate income. See International Accounting Standard IAS 12, Income Taxes. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax. Stick with the standard international (UN/OECD/etc.) term. Only Brits have a problem with it.
10 hrs
|
| neutral |
Jack Dunwell
: Tax on company profits is.... "corporation tax"
22 hrs
|
|
In my well educated opinion, "corporation tax" is very ambiguous because there exist e.g. corporate franchise taxes referred to as corporation taxes, assessed on net worth or gross revenues. (I agree that in UK the corp. income tax is called "corp. tax".
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
3 mins
Marco Solinas
Native in English
Specializes in field
Accurate, professional translations
Native in: English 
, Italian
Works in: Italian to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
87
French term (edited):
Etat, impots sur les benefices
taxes on the profits
bénéfices is profits, chiffre d'affaires is sales (or turnover)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
David Hollywood
: tax on profits/profits tax (without the "the") :) (and singular)
3 mins
|
|
You are right, thank you, no "the", but I would use the plural :-)
|
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: Profits tax.
1 hr
|
| neutral |
rkillings
: Classified under EU-mandated accounting standards as "income taxes".
13 hrs
|
6 mins
David Hollywood
Native in English
Works in field
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
40
French term (edited):
Etat, impots sur les benefices
profits tax/tax on profits
A turnover tax is similar to a sales tax or a VAT, with the difference that it taxes intermediate and possibly capital goods. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_tax - Definition in context
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_tax - Definition in context
+1
3 hrs
Statement, taxes on income (or earnings)
This looks like a professional business document. The word 'profit' is not used in professional accounting and finance except in some compound terms. The translation of 'bénéfices' as profit is strictly a layman's term and should not be used in professional, formal business documents.
The reason for avoiding the term 'profit' is that it can be calculated different ways. A common concept of what laymen call profit is EBITDA, or earnings (or income) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, but there are other ways to calculate also.
In my professional bilingual accounting dictionary (Ménards Dictionnaire de la Comptabilité et de la Gestion financière), the word "profit does not even appear as a translation for bénéfice.
The only translation for bénéfice in Ménard's is income, although I think 'earnings' can also be properly used.
This issue crops up on a regular basis in this forum. It is difficult to persuade people without backgrounds in accounting or finance of this point because they are so used to hearing the lay term 'profit'.
To you help the asker assess credibility among answerers, I suggest a quick perusing of the profile of the translator-answerers. You will notice that none of the answerers or agreers with 'profit' claim formal education in accounting or translation specialty in accounting except techlaw who has just posted. I submit that every one with a basic university course in accounting will agree on the income/profit issue.
As I was writing this, techlaw posted income tax also. He is also correct and lists accounting as hi first specialization.
I will post this now and put an explanation about 'turnover' follow.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-02-10 21:31:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As for 'turnover', it is a Strictly UK term that is not used in the US, and is used decreasingly in the UK. The US term for turnover is 'sales', and that term is increasingly used in business in the UK.
Thus, chiffre d'affaires=sales (US & UK) or turnover (UK). This is gross sales, how much the company sold altogether during the year. Income is derived by deducting the company's expenses from the sales or turnover (Usually EBITDA as explained above). Income is what laymen call profit.
Some countries tax turnover and income. So there can be one tax on "sales" and another on turnover. That may be what is happening here, but I would need more details to know for sure.
The bottom line is, you can't go wrong with tax on income, or income tax.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-02-10 21:34:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
CORRECTION
I'm sorry, I am distracted, I meant to write "So there can be one tax on sales/turnover, and another tax on income.
I apologize again, this is tricky enough in itself without me making mistakes explaining it/.
The reason for avoiding the term 'profit' is that it can be calculated different ways. A common concept of what laymen call profit is EBITDA, or earnings (or income) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, but there are other ways to calculate also.
In my professional bilingual accounting dictionary (Ménards Dictionnaire de la Comptabilité et de la Gestion financière), the word "profit does not even appear as a translation for bénéfice.
The only translation for bénéfice in Ménard's is income, although I think 'earnings' can also be properly used.
This issue crops up on a regular basis in this forum. It is difficult to persuade people without backgrounds in accounting or finance of this point because they are so used to hearing the lay term 'profit'.
To you help the asker assess credibility among answerers, I suggest a quick perusing of the profile of the translator-answerers. You will notice that none of the answerers or agreers with 'profit' claim formal education in accounting or translation specialty in accounting except techlaw who has just posted. I submit that every one with a basic university course in accounting will agree on the income/profit issue.
As I was writing this, techlaw posted income tax also. He is also correct and lists accounting as hi first specialization.
I will post this now and put an explanation about 'turnover' follow.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-02-10 21:31:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As for 'turnover', it is a Strictly UK term that is not used in the US, and is used decreasingly in the UK. The US term for turnover is 'sales', and that term is increasingly used in business in the UK.
Thus, chiffre d'affaires=sales (US & UK) or turnover (UK). This is gross sales, how much the company sold altogether during the year. Income is derived by deducting the company's expenses from the sales or turnover (Usually EBITDA as explained above). Income is what laymen call profit.
Some countries tax turnover and income. So there can be one tax on "sales" and another on turnover. That may be what is happening here, but I would need more details to know for sure.
The bottom line is, you can't go wrong with tax on income, or income tax.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2011-02-10 21:34:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
CORRECTION
I'm sorry, I am distracted, I meant to write "So there can be one tax on sales/turnover, and another tax on income.
I apologize again, this is tricky enough in itself without me making mistakes explaining it/.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Rob Grayson
: "Etat" is not "statement"; it is a kind of sub-heading that denotes that the creditor is the State/Government. It should properly be followed by a dash rather than a comma. See http://www.plancomptable.com/titre-IV/titre-IV_chapitre-IV_s...
11 hrs
|
| agree |
B D Finch
: Thanks for the extremely useful explanation. This is why I turn down offers of financial translation work!
11 hrs
|
|
Thanks. I usually just try to get a balance sheet from a similar company and use it for reference.
|
1 day 22 mins
Corporation Tax
This is what it is. The french tend to put "statement" in front of everything. I suppose some accountants feel they are paid by the word. And of course Tax on sales is VAT
Check out "Corporation Tax" by googling
Check out "Corporation Tax" by googling
Discussion
this is really good advice so thank you. I wouldnt normally translate something quite so specifically financial due to the level of complexity you mentioned here. I dont think I was expecting a balance sheet to be quite so tricky but I'm ploughing on with it with your help thanks! I will have a look at the dictionary you mention may be worth investing in.
Phils comment here saying to leave Etat in the French is that the best way? thanks
I have 2 graduate degrees in finance/MBA and worked for decades in finance and investment and still can't keep all this straight and have to refer continually to Ménard's and a couple of other finance dictionaries.
It is unlikely that these terms are completely understood by those who don't have formal training in accounting, business or finance, because these terms have specific meanings and formal definitions that often differ from lay usage.
Tony M comments "but surely that is impôt sur le revenu', and he is correct, but "impôt sur le revenu" is a synonym for "impôt sur les bénéfices", they are the same thing. One caveat, it is important to understand the difference between the definitions of revenue and income in English, they are not the same thing, and bénéfices and revenu in French, which are different, but differ differently than in English (Now that I've made that perfectly clear... )
If translators have a text in accounting/finance, I strongly recommend they get hold of a professional bilingual dictionary, because general dictionaries are not adequate. This is a prime example, a general dictionary will tell you that the translation of bénéfice is 'profit'. Specialty accounting dictionaries will not even mention that as a possible translation. (cont'