Dec 18, 2010 22:27
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Im Zeichen des Abwehrkampfes

German to English Art/Literary History
In a 1950s document about the pre-war Nazi period: a cliche of the time - so the translation should ideally have a similar worn feel to it - the word self-defence is not right as it translates differently back into German...
Change log

Dec 19, 2010 13:46: Kim Metzger changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Steffen Walter, casper (X), Kim Metzger

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

Michalsuz (asker) Dec 20, 2010:
Many thanks to everyone for their kind interest and contributions.
Michalsuz
RachelG Dec 20, 2010:
as a sign of defiance is there maybe a sense of defiance in their actions?
RachelG Dec 19, 2010:
as a sign of resistance could you give us some more of the German text/context?
Michalsuz (asker) Dec 19, 2010:
Thank you for your responses, Jeanie and Uta.

Maybe I should have said that I know that it means 'as a sign of defensive struggle' when you translate each word separately.
The context does not really add much: the Jewish veterans of WWI were ostracised and formed their own Jewish Verein,'im Zeichen des Abwehrkampfes'.
It was a commonly used expression of the time in all kinds of contexts and I am hoping that maybe someone knows a similar cliche in English...
Uta Kappler Dec 18, 2010:
I agree Jeanie, Defensive/defense struggle/battle/campaign/action are some of the options without knowing at least the full sentence. Maybe the asker could provide some context?
Jeanie Eldon Dec 18, 2010:
as a sign of the defensive struggle This is really just guesswork really. Some more context would be helpful.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

as a defensive measure

Not exactly a cliché, but that's the idea I get - that the ostracised WWI Jewish veterans formed their own association as a defensive measure against the increasing persecution.

Or perhaps, to make it slightly more figurative, something like "as a defensive shield".
Note from asker:
Thank you, Rowan, this has just the right sort of 'much used' feel to it. Michalsuz
Peer comment(s):

agree Alev Ellington
18 hrs
neutral Horst Huber (X) : Of course, that is what it boils down to, but is it really translating the given text?
2 days 1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to everyone. Michalsuz"
7 hrs

for the sake of the resistance

As the identifying tag of an organisation of activists, the phrase "im Zeichen" suggests "what we do serves the cause of ...". To say "the resistance struggle" might be redundant?
Something went wrong...
10 hrs

in the resistance struggle...

Resistance is not quite the same as defiance, but is a term that was used regularly in the context. 'struggle' also captures the 'im Zeichen' bit quite well, without turning it into a word for word translation.
Something went wrong...
+4
8 hrs

in the spirit of defiance

makes it feel more impassioned
or "as a demonstration of ..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day14 hrs (2010-12-20 12:56:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbund_jüdischer_Frontsolda...
As this article makes clear, such organizations (also in Austria, maybe Hungary too, and elsewhere) existed to counter prejudice and anti-Semitic lies by taking a stand in the public sphere. So this was actually a campaign to set the record straight.
Peer comment(s):

agree BrigitteHilgner : as a defiant gesture
39 mins
agree Thayenga
6 hrs
agree Horst Huber (X) : Well, it might do as the slogan of a Jewish "Verein", but why did they not write "Im Geiste des Abwehrkampfs"?
17 hrs
Good point, Horst. An alternative would be "Taking a defiant stand!"
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
1 day 49 mins
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search