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plancher d'épure
disque SATA sans contraintes
Jan 15, 2010 16:28
14 yrs ago
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French term

en plein brouillard

French to English Marketing Business/Commerce (general)
(I wasn't sure which category to place this question in).

One of the slides in a PPT presentation on advertising markets is titled:

Des marchés publicitaires en plein brouillard.

It is quite literally illustrated by a photo of a mountain in the fog, which limits my translation options.

I really need to keep the image because mountain images are interspersed throughout the presentation, illustrating concepts such as finding the best way to the top, avoiding pitfalls, etc. etc.

Any suggestions would be welcome!
Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 hazy outlook
4 +1 in total confusion
4 +1 limited visibility
4 +1 Outlook foggy for Advertising Industry
5 Foggy Mountain Breakdown
4 Advertising markets in thick fog
4 fogged in
2 +2 Getting through the (thick) fog of advertising markets
4 feeling my way
4 The advertising market is completely lost in the fog.
4 clouded vision
3 lost in the mountainous mists
2 (the market for) advertising - a foggy outlook
Change log

Jan 15, 2010 16:59: writeaway changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Marketing" , "Field (specific)" from "Poetry & Literature" to "Business/Commerce (general)"

Discussion

Bourth (X) Jan 17, 2010:
Yes, it's the Askers' call, but they would save their own time too if they systematically gave the fullest context possible so that answers would be better targeted and they, Askers, had less irrelevant rubbish to wade through! It would be in everybody's interest (except Henry's, I guess).
Carol Gullidge Jan 17, 2010:
re Bourth's Analogy (BA) that context is very similar, in that if the wife-beating info were provided from the start, that would considerably inform the Answerers' suggestions, thereby making the answers far more relevant, and giving the Asker a far better choice. It would be up to the Asker to make sure we all knew what sort of "coups" are being talked about.
Carol Gullidge Jan 17, 2010:
Emma, you could be right but that's what we can't be certain about without more context. I'd still like to know whether that's a mountain that's half climbed or half unclimbed, to take the glass half full/half empty analogy, before possibly making a suggestion of my own. Especially as I guess that the Asker did mention those other aspects because they might be relevant to our answers
Emma Paulay Jan 17, 2010:
OK I see where you're coming from, both of you. However, in the case of Bourth's analogy, only the person who has access to the whole text and possibly other surrounding context can make the right translation choice. Our "role" is to suggest ideas, not make the decision for the translator.

Carol, I don't get the impression this is "a marketing text" in the sense of promoting a product or conveying an image. It sounds to me like it's an analysis of a situation (the outlook for the advertising industry). My understanding is that the other examples given also have the mountain as a theme, but the translation of this caption doesn't have to encompass the ideas of all the other slides. I would say this is the slide that says 'this is where we are' and then there are others that illustrate 'this is where we need to go and how we could go about it'. Phew. That's all from me!
Carol Gullidge Jan 16, 2010:
Bourth nice analogy!
Carol Gullidge Jan 16, 2010:
Emma: captions and slogans + titles and headings are all - to a greater or lesser degree - notorious for not being directly translatable. The reason for my point is that not many of the answers provided seem to be taking into account the positive concepts given in the context, such as "finding our way to the top" and "avoiding pitfalls". They mostly seem to focus on the negative aspects of actually being in the fog, rather than seeking a way out - or even successfully emerging from - it. In English at any rate, it would be more upbeat for a marketing text to focus on the overcoming of the obstacles rather than dwelling on the obstacles themselves. I don't know if this is a cultural difference between English and French marketing, but cultural differences certainly do play a major role in this type of translation. Which is why we need all the context we can get.
Bourth (X) Jan 16, 2010:
Imagine a picture of a distressed woman in the rain with a lightning flash striking a tree behind her. The caption says "Quand les coups s'arrêteront-ils?" At face value it's a woman frightened by lightning and the translation is obvious. But what if it's a campaign against wife beating, and the text elsewhere makes it clear that the woman has escaped from a violent partner despite the weather?
Emma Paulay Jan 16, 2010:
Carol - surely the answer is in the question? Here, we don't need to interpret the image, because we already have the caption. It indicates (to me) that visibility is very low, the markets don't know where they're going, are shooting in the dark etc.
Carol Gullidge Jan 16, 2010:
indeed especially where marketing is concerned
Bourth (X) Jan 16, 2010:
Precisely, Carol. Translation is not just about the words, and the devil is in the detail.
Carol Gullidge Jan 16, 2010:
could you describe the image a little better? For instance, whether you see the mountain top emerging above the top of the fog, or whether you see the mountain disappearing into the fog. These would lead to 2 completely different interpretations
Catherine Gilsenan Jan 15, 2010:
Answer by asker "Cutting through the fog". I think you responded below. Sounds good to me.

Proposed translations

+4
22 mins
Selected

hazy outlook

I like John's "outlook" but don't thing "foggy" is quite right.

You could play with "obscured visibility" too.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2010-01-16 07:56:13 GMT)
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"Clouded vision" might work too.
Reference:

http://www.smithandken.com/news/article.php?id=10

Peer comment(s):
agree Verginia Ophof
4 hrs
agree Isabelle17
4 hrs
agree Wim Van Verre : I like this one
18 hrs
agree Philippa Smith
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
8 mins
French term (edited): Des marchés publicitaires en plein brouillard

Advertising markets in thick fog

Advertising markets in thick fog
Something went wrong...
+1
21 mins

in total confusion

i would move away from that fog business, and translate the idea rather than the words. That's just me though.
Peer comment(s):
agree SME : I think this fits better here.
15 mins
neutral writeaway : it's a PPT presentation. Ignoring the images isn't a great idea, especially not for a title
18 mins
Is that particular slide using the image of fog to make its point? If not, i would still move away from a litteral translation. It's amazing to me how all the answers can see beyond the... well, fog..
Something went wrong...
24 mins

lost in the mountainous mists

Just an option.
Something went wrong...
+1
34 mins

limited visibility

another suggestion, moving slightly away from the original wording, but reminiscent of the dear old shipping forecast!
Peer comment(s):
agree John Detre : works for me, first thing that came to mind before I scrolled down to look at the answers: poor visibility for advertising markets
5 hrs
thanks John
Something went wrong...
58 mins

fogged in

As bad for advertising markets as it is for airports.
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

Getting through the (thick) fog of advertising markets

Hello,

Is that what they mean? Getting through the "thick fog" of advertising markets. In other words, how do you get to the top, be a winner, etc????

I hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
agree Stephanie Ezrol : I think this is close to what they are saying
7 hrs
Thank you, Stephanie! I appreciate it.
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
11 hrs
Merci 1045! Bon week-end
Something went wrong...
1 hr

feeling my way

OK, you've got this text and a picture of fog. But what does the text go on say (assuming it goes on ...) ?

Advertisers could be feeling their way, inching their way forward blindfolded, not knowing where they're going, playing the guessing game, be caught in a pea-souper, they might have stumbled off the track in thick fog, they might have sought to fly too high and gone into the clouds ... The sky's the limit, as it were.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

The advertising market is completely lost in the fog.

Among other things, I would reduce "markets" to the singular as we always speak of "the market for..." in English, as one broad marketplace. Secondly, I understand the advice here to avoid a totally literal translation... but the metaphor of a "fog" is a good one and has an equivalent meaning in English. Why eliminate it?
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

Outlook foggy for Advertising Industry

Another possible rearrangement of the terms. I think it is important to keep the word foggy in order to match the image.
Peer comment(s):
agree John Detre
2 hrs
Thanks :)
Something went wrong...
9 mins

(the market for) advertising - a foggy outlook

a not too inspired guess - though I think you can get away with not having any mountain-related refs.

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Note added at 11 mins (2010-01-15 16:40:07 GMT)
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Here's an ad-related ref

http://www.cmo.com/tv-cable/marketers-still-holding-tv-dolla...


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Note added at 16 mins (2010-01-15 16:45:13 GMT)
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If it's snow-capped, you could consider slippery slopes and dreadful puns like "mist" opportunities.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-01-15 21:16:25 GMT)
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Prompted by Writeaway's comments "cutting through the fog" or "rising above the fog" might be possible if we're not taking about the current state of the market.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : but is that the context? doom and gloom?
29 mins
We can only go on what we're given and if I had to guess I'd opt for something implying uncertainty or the difficulty in finding one's way. Cutting through the fog might be a option if you want to get away from the notion of a subdued market.
Something went wrong...
1 day 7 hrs

clouded vision

-
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5 mins

Foggy Mountain Breakdown

"Foggy Mountain Breakdown" is a famous bluegrass music instrumental by the seminal bluegrass artists Flatt and Scruggs.[1] It is used (anachronistically) as background music in the 1967 motion picture Bonnie and Clyde, especially in the car chase scenes, and has been used in a similar manner in many other pictures and television programs, particularly when depicting a pursuit scene in a rural setting.
- Just send the cheque!

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Note added at 3 jours4 heures (2010-01-18 20:59:58 GMT)
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Or "In a mist" - Bix Beiderbeck
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