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Les fonds du reste insuffisants, jusqu’ici mobilisés,
grain lumière arme
Mar 2, 2008 20:51
16 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term

engagée

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) company contract
ccomparaissent:
La societé anonyme xxxx, engagée par YYYY, administrateur avec signature individuelle,
ici representée par ZZZZ, selon procuration datée du 6 octobre 2006

YYYY's signature is binding on the company, so one would like to say he represents the company, BUT the extra 'e' on representee tells us that the Company is here represented by zzzz. So what do we put for engag♪e?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 committed by
4 +2 YYY can commit the Company (see below)
3 +1 engaged / appointed
4 -1 contracted
3 Company XXXX is bound by director YYYY's signature signed by proxy by ZZZZ (or by a YYYY's proxy sig
2 -1 set up by
Change log

Mar 2, 2008 21:11: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "engagée (here)" to "engagée" , "Field" from "Other" to "Law/Patents"

Discussion

MatthewLaSon Mar 8, 2008:
Just trying to help you and others who may refer to this question later on. Sorry. Excluding my posts above, not everything remaining is a direct question to you and should have been posted in the posters' answers. Anyways, this rule is often broken.
Paul Hirsh (asker) Mar 8, 2008:
Hi Matthew, these questions are requests for translation help, not for rewrites of the original ! Anyway, as you can see, the question has already been closed.
MatthewLaSon Mar 8, 2008:
Sorry, I meant it should go like this: La société XXXX s'engage par la seule signature de l'Administrateur YYYY, representé ici par ZZZZ, selon procuration datée...
That way, there would much less confusion, in my humble opinion.
MatthewLaSon Mar 8, 2008:
I think the sentence should have been written this way: Company XXXX s'engage par la seule signature de l'Administrateur, YYYY, representé ici par ZZZZ, selon procuration datée... Then, I would have understood. Yes, ZZZZ has to be the one signing.
Tony M Mar 3, 2008:
Please give us enough context to make sense of all this; who are these X, Y, and Z, in terms of the relationships between them?
Attorney DC Bar Mar 3, 2008:
Company XXX is now bound by the agreement. Asker, I'm assuming that there is an agreement, signed by ZZZ?
Attorney DC Bar Mar 3, 2008:
Most likely scenario: the 'e' at the end of 'representée' is a typo. YYY, a director of XXX, has individual signature authority (which he gets from the articles), and is represented by ZZZ pursuant to a special power of attorney. ZZZ signs the contract.
Attorney DC Bar Mar 3, 2008:
Tony M: Asker's statement "signature is binding on the company" could simply be based on
"administrateur avec signature individuelle" which as you know means that YYY is a director with individual signature authority, i.e. he himself can bind the company
Attorney DC Bar Mar 3, 2008:
Can Asker give us more context? Does the notion of XXX being bound by YYY's acts or signature make sense in this context?
Jennifer Levey Mar 3, 2008:
Here, for Edward de Bono fans, comes a bit of 'lateral thinking': is it fair to assume that YYY is an administrator of company XXX? Could YYY be the boss of some other company?
MatthewLaSon Mar 3, 2008:
The French is not clear to me. I've never translated "engagé par" by anything other than "hired/contracted by". But, there's always a first time. The only other meaning I can see here is that yyyy constitutes a liability for xxxx.
Zofia Wislocka Mar 2, 2008:
in this case ZZZ represents, and YYY is _generally, as a rule_ authorised to sign contracts binding for the company (here: engagee = liable to perform, under binding obligation to perform). Proposal :)

Proposed translations

+3
1 hr
Selected

committed by

i.e. the company is committed to certain things as a result of YYYY's binding signature

(That's always assuming that 'engagée' is not being used in the sense of 'mise en gage' ...).
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
1 hr
agree John ANTHONY
1 hr
neutral Attorney DC Bar : Right idea, but sounds funny. Also, 'the company was committed by' gets no relevant google hits. Better term for this concept here? Also, don't see where 'mise en gage' could possibly come in. Assets are sometimes 'gagés', not companies.
5 hrs
I agree that 'committed by' sounds odd - but... And I only mentioned 'mise en gage' for the purpose of expressly excluding it as unlikely in this context.
agree MatthewLaSon : Company XXXX is bound by director YYYY's signature signed by proxy by ZZZZ (or by a YYYY's proxy signature by ZZZZ).
5 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This was closest answer. I used bound in the end. Thanks everyone"
-1
20 mins
French term (edited): engagée (here)

set up by

and PDG?
Peer comment(s):
disagree Attorney DC Bar : How do you get from 'engagée" to 'set up by'?
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr
French term (edited): La societé anonyme xxxx, engagée par YYYY

YYY can commit the Company (see below)

The Company has authorized one of its Directors, YYY, to act on its behalf by its proxy (or power of attorney) of 6 October 2006. ZZZ acts here by delegated authority from YYY to act on behalf of the Company.
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
42 mins
thanks writeaway
neutral Jennifer Levey : Well, yes - but how do you propose to translate the sentence?
3 hrs
If it makes sense with more information and context of document, exactly as I proposed above in 2 sentences, not one.
neutral Attorney DC Bar : More likely YYY's individual signature authority is in the memorandum and articles, since it's clear that ZZZ has a power of attorney to represent the company, probably just a special power of attorney.
4 hrs
yes, that seems to be what I suggested in my 2 sentences above.
agree MatthewLaSon : That's the idea. Thank, Michael. I learned a lot in this question. You could probably phrase it differently, but the meaning is spot-on.
5 days
thanks Matthew. Appreciate your comment.
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

contracted

generally, "hired" is used for people, "contracted" is used for companies.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Jennifer Levey : But asker has explained "YYYY's signature is binding on the company", and that cannot apply if the company XXX has been hired/contracted.
2 hrs
Simple: YYY contracted XXX, which in turn is represented by ZZZ, who is authorized to sign according to a power of attorney
disagree Attorney DC Bar : Agree with mediametrix's comment. YYY has individual signature authority. He would not contract company xxx.
3 hrs
I give up - please let the asker decide.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

engaged / appointed

Surely it is the literal sense of 'engaged' here? Company X has been appointed by Y to act for them, and X is repreented here by the person of Z. It appears that X as given 'power of attorney' (etc.) by Y to act for them.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-02 22:21:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

X has been given...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2008-03-03 09:52:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I entirely take the points being made by M/M and Rufinus; however, I think they may both be being misled by the explanation given by Asker in the first place; it would help a lot to know a bit more of the context.

I read 'engagée par Y' as being totally parenthetic, so it is X who is able to act as sole signatory, in accordance with the power of attorney given to it (we presume by y)

I think if you read it that way, my suggestion makes sense; I don't believe 'administrateur avec signature individuelle' applies to Y, but rather to X.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2008-03-03 17:58:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ok, wel if we assume that Y is indeed a person, a director, then my interpretation could still hold good: company X has been engaged by sole signatory director Y, and (company X) is represented by Z.

As ever, a bit more context would resolve all these issues very simply.
Peer comment(s):
agree Patrice
1 hr
Merci, Patrice !
neutral Jennifer Levey : But asker has explained "YYYY's signature is binding on the company", and that cannot apply if the company XXX has been hired/contracted.
3 hrs
I think we're going round in circles here! I believe ''signature is binding' is nothing more than Asker's own (mis)interpretation of 'engagée'
disagree Attorney DC Bar : Agree with mediametrix's comment. YYY has individual signature authority. He would not hire or engage company xxx.
4 hrs
I think we're going round in circles here! I believe ''signature is binding' is nothing more than Asker's own (mis)interpretation of 'engagée'
agree Adam Warren : "appointed" is good and safe. X may not be an attorney, though.
11 hrs
Thanks, Ian! / No, of course not (tho' that's why more context is needed) — I just used 'power of attorney' to translate 'procuration' in the absence of adequate context
Something went wrong...
5 days

Company XXXX is bound by director YYYY's signature signed by proxy by ZZZZ (or by a YYYY's proxy sig

Hello,

My try

engagée = bound by

I think the sentence should have been written this way: La société XXXX s'engage par la seule signature de l'Administrateur, YYYY, representé ici par ZZZZ, selon procuration datée...

Yes, ZZZZ has to be the one signing.

Something went wrong...
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