Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
enfants communs mineurs
English translation:
under-age children /\'of the family\'/of both spouses
Added to glossary by
Eyma
Dec 21, 2007 16:05
16 yrs ago
40 viewers *
French term
enfants communs mineurs
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
What would be the English equivalent of the above expression "enfants communs mineurs"? This is from a legal document.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | under-age children /'of the family'/of both spouses |
Adrian MM. (X)
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| 4 +1 | (minor) children of the marriage |
Patrice
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| 4 +1 | children under the age of majority born to the couple |
ACOZ (X)
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| 3 +1 | joint minor children |
L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen
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| 4 | mutual children below the age of majority |
B D Finch
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| 3 | joint infant children |
Francis MARC
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| 4 -3 | joint custody of minor children |
mistahara (X)
|
Proposed translations
+3
3 hrs
Selected
under-age children /'of the family'/of both spouses
Though unpopular with translators, the term a child of the family has a specific meaning in the UK Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 etc. and may not in fact be the natural children but ones treated as one by adoption or fostering etc.
IATE,
FR enfant commun
EN child of both spouses
IATE,
FR enfant commun
EN child of both spouses
Example sentence:
Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. Divorce .... an order varying for the benefit of the parties to the marriage and of the children of the family or either or any ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tzveta Valentinova
: "of both spouses" is in EUR-Lex
21 mins
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Blagodaria!
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| agree |
Istvan Nagy
1 hr
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Koszenem szepen! Igazad van.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: yes of course, but Patrice's prior suggestion is equally viable
15 days
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yes ... and valuable.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This will work fine. Thanks."
-3
15 mins
joint custody of minor children
I think...
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Note added at 26 mins (2007-12-21 16:31:49 GMT)
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You could say joint/non-joint minor children, but, in legal terms, joint children actually means joint custody of children (common in Marital Settlement Aggreements)
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Note added at 26 mins (2007-12-21 16:31:49 GMT)
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You could say joint/non-joint minor children, but, in legal terms, joint children actually means joint custody of children (common in Marital Settlement Aggreements)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
hirselina
: Where is the "custody" in French?
0 min
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à mon avis, sous-entendu
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| disagree |
Cetacea
: While "joint minor children" is correct, the term does not "actually mean" joint custody, not in legal or any other terms. This might easily be about child support. See e.g. http://dcs.state.or.us/forms/csf020809a.pdf
29 mins
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It could be just "joint minor children". Let's see some context (if any). Thanks, Cetacea!
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| disagree |
Anne de Freyman (X)
: agree with Cetacea
2 hrs
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It depends on the context: maybe it's just "joint children", thanks, Anne
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| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: "custody" doesn't even appear in the French so you are making a wild guess
2 hrs
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That's true! When I saw "legal document", I immediately thought of marital/divorce settlement agreement. Without the proper context...
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15 mins
joint infant children
*
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-12-21 17:05:38 GMT)
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également "joint minor children"
Ref. Termium:
Domaine(s)
– Family Law
– Status of Persons (Admin. Law)
Domaine(s)
– Droit de la famille
– Statut des personnes (Droit admin.)
infant child Source CORRECT
minor child Source
enfant mineur Source MASC
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-12-21 17:05:38 GMT)
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également "joint minor children"
Ref. Termium:
Domaine(s)
– Family Law
– Status of Persons (Admin. Law)
Domaine(s)
– Droit de la famille
– Statut des personnes (Droit admin.)
infant child Source CORRECT
minor child Source
enfant mineur Source MASC
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Graham macLachlan
: "infant" is correct or the OED is wrong!
18 mins
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| neutral |
Cetacea
: joint minor children. "mineur" doesn't mean "infant"; it refers to any child under the age of 18.
31 mins
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| neutral |
writeaway
: infant is wrong. Cetecea's explanation tells you why
51 mins
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see my second input with "minor" instead of "infant"
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: "joint" of "what"?
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Paul Cohen
: Not "également" minor children. Sorry, infant is wrong.
2 hrs
|
+1
2 hrs
L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen
South Africa
South Africa
Native in English
Works in field
South Africa
Willing & Ready to be of service to YOU!
Native in: English 
, Dutch
Works in: Dutch to English, Afrikaans to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
joint minor children
These are "ours" as opposed to "his" and "hers"
It gets comlicated when you have children, get divorced and then remarry... and both have their own and now have their own. hence: "his" -- "hers" and "ours"
It gets comlicated when you have children, get divorced and then remarry... and both have their own and now have their own. hence: "his" -- "hers" and "ours"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Paul Cohen
: Your answer looks surprisingly like the one from Francis MARC after he realized that "mineurs" does not mean "infant". Hmm....whatever. It's not a race. Your "his" and "hers" and "ours" explanation was very creative. Off topic: Reminds me of bathtowels...
19 mins
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Thanks. This is the way we call it here in SA. (My wife and I only have ours... after 42.5 years of married "bliss"
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+1
10 hrs
(minor) children of the marriage
I see this rendering all the time in work I do with family lawyers.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-12-22 02:17:03 GMT)
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Actually, I meant to give myself a confidence rating of 5 here.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-12-22 02:17:03 GMT)
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Actually, I meant to give myself a confidence rating of 5 here.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: definitely the best option but it would be helpful if asker would provide the whole sentence-like you I see thids phrase constantly as I work in English Courts
9 hrs
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thanks and have a lovely holiday season
|
+1
13 hrs
children under the age of majority born to the couple
If you know the age of majority in the relevant country, you could say "children under the age of (XX) years born to the couple".
3 hrs
mutual children below the age of majority
"Order from the British Library: Family Commitment, Role Perceptions, Social Support, and **Mutual Children** in Remarriage: A Test of Uncertainty Reduction ..."
direct.bl.uk/research/32/36/RN149324494.html
"Thus when **mutual children** are born in a stepfamily while the ex-spouse is still childless and/or unmarried, the likelihood is that the "ex" will be ..."
books.google.com/books?isbn=0887384366...
"... **mutual children** generating from their union with their Turkish spouse, ... before having reached **age of majority**, stipulated by their national laws or ..."
www.turkisheconomy.org.uk/investment/workpermits.htm
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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-12-21 19:58:32 GMT)
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I realise that this is more wordy than the original; however, the use of the word "minor" in this phrase just does not seem to work well or be clear. One would not wish to imply that the children concerned were unimportant.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-12-21 20:02:13 GMT)
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"Under-age" is another possibility, but it can relate to matters for which the legal threshold age varies, such as: drinking, getting married, voting, being left alone and unsupervised, being left alone in charge of a younger child ...
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Note added at 15 hrs (2007-12-22 07:14:38 GMT)
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I've just googled "joint minor children", being puzzled about why so many colleagues agreed with an expression that sounded so odd to me, and discovered that it is American! (It gets no UK ghits.) So it all depends whether you want US or UK English.
direct.bl.uk/research/32/36/RN149324494.html
"Thus when **mutual children** are born in a stepfamily while the ex-spouse is still childless and/or unmarried, the likelihood is that the "ex" will be ..."
books.google.com/books?isbn=0887384366...
"... **mutual children** generating from their union with their Turkish spouse, ... before having reached **age of majority**, stipulated by their national laws or ..."
www.turkisheconomy.org.uk/investment/workpermits.htm
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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-12-21 19:58:32 GMT)
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I realise that this is more wordy than the original; however, the use of the word "minor" in this phrase just does not seem to work well or be clear. One would not wish to imply that the children concerned were unimportant.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-12-21 20:02:13 GMT)
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"Under-age" is another possibility, but it can relate to matters for which the legal threshold age varies, such as: drinking, getting married, voting, being left alone and unsupervised, being left alone in charge of a younger child ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2007-12-22 07:14:38 GMT)
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I've just googled "joint minor children", being puzzled about why so many colleagues agreed with an expression that sounded so odd to me, and discovered that it is American! (It gets no UK ghits.) So it all depends whether you want US or UK English.
Discussion