quote-part indivise de parties communes

English translation: pro indiviso share in the common parts

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:quote-part indivise de parties communes
English translation:pro indiviso share in the common parts
Entered by: B D Finch

20:21 Aug 20, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Real Estate / property division record
French term or phrase: quote-part indivise de parties communes
Les deux volumes ne comprenant aucune quote-part indivise de parties communes, les relations entre les volumes liées à l'imbrication et la superposition des volumes sont réglées par les servitudes qui sont créées aux présentes.
janisct
Local time: 18:58
pro indiviso share in the common parts
Explanation:
Generally one woud simply say a share in the common parts of the building. However, as "indivise" is there in the source text, I would, as a belt and braces provision, put in "pro indiviso" (silly though it might seem to imagine that anyone would allocate specific parts of the common staircase etc to particular individuals).

"In Barclay v. Penman 1984 S.L.T. 376 an attempt was made to establish that one of several proprietors of a house held it under a lease to him by all the proprietors and as a secure tenant with a view to resisting an action for division and sale. In response to an argument that no one could be creditor and debtor in the same obligation the defender sought to argue that the body of pro indiviso proprietors constituted a legal persona separate from each individual proprietor. That solution was held by Lord Stewart to be erroneous and he held that no lease had been created. The basis on which he proceeded was a consideration of the basic principle of multiple ownership that all of the proprietors must agree to any transaction involving the property except in cases of necessity."
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldjudgmt/j...

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Note added at 59 mins (2008-08-20 21:21:17 GMT)
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"Together with (First) a 1/4 pro indiviso share in and to the area tinted mauve on the said plan, (Second) a right in common with the proprietors of the ..."
www.ros.gov.uk/foi/legal/text/ch6~2.htm

"PRO INDIVISO. For an undivided part. The possession or occupation of lands or tenements belonging to two or mare persons, and consequently neither knows his several portion till divided: Bract. 1. 5."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pro indiviso
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:58
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2undivided {jointly owned} percentage share of the common parts
Adrian MM. (X)
4 +1undivided pro rata share of common areas
wfarkas (X)
4undivided share in common portions
Euqinimod (X)
4pro indiviso share in the common parts
B D Finch


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
undivided {jointly owned} percentage share of the common parts


Explanation:
Indivise: not enough context but, in the case of a married couple or siblings etc. buying, could mean jointly tenanted (i.e. owned).





Example sentence(s):
  • The percentage of the undivided interest in the common areas and facilities .... of flats for the share of the common expenses chargeable to any flat shall ...

    Reference: http://awas.up.nic.in/linkfile/flats.htm
Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 19:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 165

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer Forbes: In a translation I've just finished, the client asked me to say "jointly-owned units" in a context similar to yours.
4 mins
  -> Thx. Commonhold in the UK could also be in the picture.

neutral  B D Finch: Re Jenny's comment, "common parts" means "jointly owned parts" and clients can be wrong but are (of course) always right... So "undivided" is OK, but "jointly owned" is redundant.// This argument is apparently based upon a misunderstanding of leasehold.
43 mins
  -> Blocks of flats have common/communal parts. If you have a commonhold = joint ownership of common parts, pls. take another look.//The freeholders own the common parts, *unless the tenants gang up to buy out the freehold and turn into commonholders*.

agree  Jack Dunwell
21 hrs
  -> Thanks for your support.
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
undivided share in common portions


Explanation:
See refs.


    www.querycat.com/faq/cfa8f6f5fa22cb46c1dd496c3355c3c6 - 24k
    Reference: http:///www.cdnq.org/en/legalInformations/depliants/coOwners...
Euqinimod (X)
Local time: 19:58
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 9
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56 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
pro indiviso share in the common parts


Explanation:
Generally one woud simply say a share in the common parts of the building. However, as "indivise" is there in the source text, I would, as a belt and braces provision, put in "pro indiviso" (silly though it might seem to imagine that anyone would allocate specific parts of the common staircase etc to particular individuals).

"In Barclay v. Penman 1984 S.L.T. 376 an attempt was made to establish that one of several proprietors of a house held it under a lease to him by all the proprietors and as a secure tenant with a view to resisting an action for division and sale. In response to an argument that no one could be creditor and debtor in the same obligation the defender sought to argue that the body of pro indiviso proprietors constituted a legal persona separate from each individual proprietor. That solution was held by Lord Stewart to be erroneous and he held that no lease had been created. The basis on which he proceeded was a consideration of the basic principle of multiple ownership that all of the proprietors must agree to any transaction involving the property except in cases of necessity."
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldjudgmt/j...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2008-08-20 21:21:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Together with (First) a 1/4 pro indiviso share in and to the area tinted mauve on the said plan, (Second) a right in common with the proprietors of the ..."
www.ros.gov.uk/foi/legal/text/ch6~2.htm

"PRO INDIVISO. For an undivided part. The possession or occupation of lands or tenements belonging to two or mare persons, and consequently neither knows his several portion till divided: Bract. 1. 5."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pro indiviso

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 271
Notes to answerer
Asker: Your answer seems to be strongly supported by your research, and laso sticks closely to the original French, so I'm opting for your answer . Many thanks to everyone else though, all the answers sound pretty good to me.

Asker: OOps, sorry about the spelling mistake (laso + also!!)

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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
undivided pro rata share of common areas


Explanation:
Standard property subdivision terminology.

wfarkas (X)
Canada
Local time: 13:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Katarina Peters: best so far!
2 hrs
  -> Thank you , Katarina. Appreciate you feedback.

neutral  B D Finch: "Prorata" is not in the source text, so why insert "pro rata" in the target?
9 hrs
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