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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

Backfill package / Backfill layer

French translation:

lot de remblayage / couche de remblai

Added to glossary by B D Finch
Dec 31, 2018 15:06
5 yrs ago
3 viewers *
English term

Backfill package / Backfill layer

English to French Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering
Clause d'un contrat de construction :

"Soil condition :

Deliver the soil conditions per the standardized tender document “xxxx”, which is to obtain a minimum of 11MPa in the backfill package, 17MPa on top of the backfill layer (as shown in the blue square in Picture 2)."

Merci d'avance,
Proposed translations (French)
4 +1 lot de remblayage / couche de rembai
5 corps du remblai / couche de remblai
4 remblai / remblayage
Change log

Dec 31, 2018 15:38: B D Finch changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Tech/Engineering"

Jan 2, 2019 10:14: B D Finch Created KOG entry

Jan 3, 2019 10:07: B D Finch changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/570330">B D Finch's</a> old entry - "Backfill package / Backfill layer "" to ""lot de remblayage / couche de rembai""

Discussion

Germaine Jan 3, 2019:
B D Finch, Should I understand that you ever got your boots muddy (which I did, by the way) or ever read/fill a tender form? cause your explanations sure don’t speak for it!

I fail to see where the discussion up to now clarified anything but differences in FR-US and FR-CA. Strictly speaking, in English, "backfill" is used to mean both the "material used in refilling an excavation" - which we call, in FR-CA, "matériau de remplissage" or "granulats", depending on the context - and "to refill an excavation" - which we call, in FR-CA, "remblayer/remblayage": the action of filling an excavation, a trench, etc. with a (sterile) material, the result of which is a "remblai".

So, "strictly speaking", as a native speaker of French, I will use "remblai" to point to the mass of the "stuff" (sand, earth, gravel, etc.) put in place according to certain backfilling specifications (conditions de remblayage) and it’s the "remblai" ou "le corps du remblai" (= the whole/the largest part, depending on the context) and a "couche supérieure/sous-fondation/fondation" that will "obtain" 11/17 MPa - certainly not the "package". Just like here, a "work package" can’t be "responsible for" anything.
B D Finch Jan 3, 2019:
@Germaine I think the discussion here clarifies why sitting at a desk dealing with legal documents can't provide the same knowledge of construction contracts as working on both drafting and on-site management of such contracts. Getting one's boots muddy is very useful.
Note that, strictly speaking, "remblai" is the stuff, "remblayage" is what one does with it.
B D Finch Jan 3, 2019:
@Renate Thanks for drawing that to my attention. I've corrected the typo. You could, of course, have done so yourself.
Renate Radziwill-Rall Jan 2, 2019:
B D Finch there is a mistake in what you put in the glossary, it certainly is not "rembai"
Germaine Jan 2, 2019:
Renate, S.t.p., ne me prête pas d’intention. Je n’avais pas commenté ta réponse, donc, je n’ai pas "immédiatement compris "remblai" comme une traduction littérale". En fait, j’ai accroché sur "remblayage" pour "backfill layer".
Renate Radziwill-Rall Jan 2, 2019:
C'est pour exactement cette raison pourquoi je ne me suis pas avancée davantage, ce que tu as aussitôt compris comme une traduction littérale
Germaine Jan 2, 2019:
Faut croire que non! :-/
Mais pour ma défense (et celle de Finch, quand même!) faut-il ajouter que le texte soumis n’est vraiment pas un chef d’oeuvre? S’il y a distinction à faire, ça coûtait quoi de dire ce qu’il y a "on top of the backfill layer"?
Renate Radziwill-Rall Jan 2, 2019:
Germaine Tu n'es pas encore habituée aux inepties qui trouvent leur chemin vers le glossaire ?
Germaine Jan 2, 2019:
Oui. Bien sûr! Que valent mes 14 ans d’expérience (à plein temps!) dans la préparation de documents de soumission (clauses générales et particulières, devis, formulaires de soumission, etc.) et la cinquantaine de rapports d’expertise en génie civil des cinq dernières années (études géotechniques, excavations et remblais, fondations, murs de soutènement, etc.) face à des "likely to mean", "apparently relates to" et à une traduction littérale? Bien peu! J’ai sûrement dû rêver ma proposition. Pardonnez-moi!

J’ose à peine vous suggérer de réviser ce qu’est une "apposition" (je n’en vois aucune) et les divers sens que peut prendre le verbe "s’opposer" en français, mais je laisse avec plaisir "any excavation and backfiling contractor" apprécier vos explications!
B D Finch Jan 1, 2019:
@Germaine Any native speaker of English who had ever managed a large construction project would recognise that "package" refers to the contractual work package and couldn't possibly mean the body/mass of backfill. The text then switches in "17MPa on top of the backfill layer" to talk about a physical layer of backfill that is identified in a picture. The 17MPa compaction rate apparently relates to topsoil that is laid on top of that backfill layer. A minimum compaction rate across the whole of that work package is laid down and then a higher compaction rate is specified for a particular part of that work package.

The syntactical device of putting 17MPa in apposition to 11MPa, by using a comma and a phrase with no verb, makes it clear that both relate to the same work package. Note the difference between the syntactic term "apposition" and "opposition". There is no "opposition" here.

Proposed translations

+1
31 mins
Selected

lot de remblayage / couche de rembai

The "backfill package" is likely to mean the work package responsible, under the contract, for carrying out backfilling. So, the MPa given here is for the overall pressure for backfill. On the other hand "backfill layer" is a particular layer of backfill that requires a higher degree of compaction.

www.seao.ca/OpportunityPublication/avisconsultes.aspx?ItemI...
... Lot 1.2 Excavation et remblayage - Agrandissement et rénovation du Palais de ...

www.cuges-les-pins.fr/cuges/custom/module/.../2018mapa001-c...
De plus, le compactage de la dernière couche de remblai sera jugé satisfaisant lorsque : - EV2> 50 MPa.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2018-12-31 15:39:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've changed the subject fields of this question, because this terminology has nothing whatsoever to do with "law".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-12-31 18:34:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just in case the above isn't clear:

"Deliver the soil conditions per the standardized tender document “xxxx”, which is to obtain a minimum of 11MPa in the backfill package ... "

So, for the contractual work package that covers backfill, the minimum compression is 11 MPa.

Here (for the benefit of those who comment without trying to understand the term), is an explanation of what "package" means in the context of a construction contract:

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Construction_work_...
"Packaging is normally associated with general contractors who split a large project into a series of work packages suitable for obtaining tenders and placing orders with the subcontracting and goods supply chain, thereby transferring risk for delivering some elements of the works to others.

However, the design team, generally advised by the cost consultant, may elect to preempt a general contractor by selecting specialist systems required for early inclusion into the evolving design. This creates a built in package requirement. "
Peer comment(s):
neutral Germaine : Un "lot de remblayage" n’a pas un taux de compaction... // Really? Which? Yours or mine? Cause AFAIK, "le dessus de la couche de remblai" devrait faire partie du "lot de remblayage", or do you ask a tender for that layer only?
2 hrs
Try reading my explanation above, in the light of which I'm sure you'll realise why that is a silly comment.//See my Discussion comment.
agree Philippe Etienne : L'"adjudicataire" du "lot" doit tasser son remblai à mort, et la couche du dessus encore plus.
1 day 2 hrs
Merci Philippe. That would actually be an over-translation, because the blue square in Picture 2 might not relate to the whole works package.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
17 mins

remblai / remblayage

-
Peer comment(s):
neutral Germaine : remblai / couche de remblai - couche de remblayage
3 days 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

corps du remblai / couche de remblai

Réaliser les conditions de sol conformes aux spécifications du document de soumission normalisé "Xxxx", à savoir obtenir une [portance] [résistance à la compression] minima de 11 MPa dans le corps du remblai et de 17 MPa dans la couche [supérieure] [superficielle] du remblai...

...11 MPa dans le corps de remblais, 17 MPa dans le mètre supérieur de remblais,
http://technisport.info/images/2017/HolcimBelgium/Fiche-tech...

backfill layer - couche de remblai
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?la...
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Why would the writer use the term "package" for "corps du remblai"? "Package" has a specific contractual meaning. See the Note added to my answer.//That would never be called "package" in English.
42 mins
"Package" s’oppose à "top layer" here, which explains that I see it as "corps" = partie la plus massive. Le remblayage (indissociable de l’excavation) se fait par couches; chaque couche, y compris celle du dessus, fait partie du "lot" entier.
Something went wrong...
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